Always a Wasp

Author Topic: EJ is a great coach, but he has reached a crossroads – it is time for him to go.  (Read 3289 times)

Rossm

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Austen Healey in The Telegraph.

It is not a question of whether anyone coming in could do any better, it’s a question of whether anyone would do any worse

I have highlighted what he said about Paolo's treatment.

I have called for England coaches to go in the past – Andy Robinson would be a good example – and often it was based on emotion. The Robinson era was tough: post-World Cup, the team was in transition but it lacked quality. He was almost a victim of circumstance.

This time, however, it is based on logic – and Eddie Jones should go. There is a touch of emotion because we all want England to play well, but this is based more on Eddie not resolving so many cumulative problems.

Eddie has become a victim of a process that he was part of creating: having all of his squad, all the time. It’s not good for the players to be in camp for nine weeks – you grow stale and begin to hate each other’s company.

When you look at the other nations – the ones that beat England this year – their players went back to their clubs and then returned to camp. It did them no harm – and in some cases it helped them.

Covid was an issue, of course, and the RFU had to create a ‘bubble’, but the other teams managed to send their players back to their clubs without incident, so why couldn’t England?

When I was playing for England, whether you had a great game or a c--- game, you’d go back and play for your club. That would almost reset you. If you had a poor game for England then you’d be champing at the bit to play for your club – to try and find some form.

That certainly applies to poor Paolo Odogwu. Eddie’s remarks on him, claiming that he will go back to Wasps a better player, were the height of arrogance. It is completely disrespectful, too, towards all the coaches at Wasps and around the country. To think that someone who hasn’t played for eight weeks is going to return to their club a better player because he’s held a tackle shield at different angles is utter nonsense. Eddie should be embarrassed when he reads that back.

Eddie’s insistence on control and micromanaging has been to the detriment of this squad. It has created an insular, ‘them and us’ mentality. It has made England lethargic. Ignoring Italy, England scored just two first-half tries this tournament – that’s down to the squad not feeling energised and ready enough before matches. It’s almost as if England believed they had a divine right to force their way into games – it’s not the case.

For the RFU, Eddie’s future has reached a crossroads: he’s either in for the 2023 World Cup, or he needs to go now, because whoever comes in needs time, especially as it’s looking increasingly likely that there’ll be no summer tour.

You either sack him and find a replacement, for which there are several good candidates – Rob Baxter and Mark McCall among others – or Eddie, the great disruptor, has to break his own status quo. He has become far too close to some of England’s current squad and it’s hard for him to drop them.

It’s not a question, either, of whether anyone coming in could do any better, it’s a question of whether anyone would do any worse? It’s not hard to do better than Eddie’s done this year – if my teenage daughters had been in charge during the Six Nations, would England have finished any differently?

There is no disputing that Eddie is a great rugby coach – his track record speaks for itself. But these are cumulative problems; the players have been in that squad so long that they don’t forget things that have been said. If you want to disrupt them, you naturally go against what you said before, but then you risk looking hypocritical. People remember the mistakes you made, too.

If you looked at the trajectory of Eddie’s England coaching career, it would look like the Big Dipper. Are you on an upwards curve with a Six Nations Grand Slam leading to a World Cup final? Or are you on the downwards slope where everyone is screaming, ‘Let me off’?

Eddie’s rollercoaster has dipped too low, too many times – it’s now time for him to get off.
SLAVA UKRAINI!
HEROYAM SLAVA!

RBB

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This is spot on, the Big Dipper analogy sums it up.
It was fine when I left it.....

jamestaylor002

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Good article, thanks for sharing Ross.

I think Austin asks a good question - if it's not Eddie, who will it be? Would Baxter be that good a fit for England? I'm not so sure because he wouldn't be afforded the time to develop the England squad quite like he's been able to with the Exeter squad. But I'm happy to be proven wrong. With everything surrounding Saracens at the moment (and probably for some time too) would McCall be an option in reality?

HDAWG

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With everything surrounding Saracens at the moment (and probably for some time too) would McCall be an option in reality?

On this forum, McCall being considered  head coach of England might be less popular than having EJ, and that's saying something.

NellyWellyWaspy

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Neither Baxter nor McCall. Too formulaic. Which is what Eddie's downfall is. A good national coach mixes it up and flexes with what he has available, puts out a team that plays what it sees in front of it, and does not impose a game plan.

DGP Wasp

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Hard to argue with any of that, particularly the comments on Paolo.

This as well:
"Eddie’s insistence on control and micromanaging has been to the detriment of this squad. It has created an insular, ‘them and us’ mentality."
I've felt this for a while, and for me it's an extension of the Sarries "culture" which has become far too prevalent.  Healey touts McCall as a potential replacement, but please NO!!!  We need to break away from the Sarries-dominated squad which goes back to the Lancaster/Farrell (snr) era, where the team has been built around Farrell (jnr).  A change in culture is needed with England.  It starts with a change of coach, but a new captain must follow (Curry), and then give Marcus Smith a decent crack and begin building a side that plays to his strengths rather than to Owen Farrell's limitations.

HDAWG

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I don't necessarily think EJ should be sacked, but the only coach I would replace him with is Scott Robertson

jamestaylor002

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With everything surrounding Saracens at the moment (and probably for some time too) would McCall be an option in reality?

On this forum, McCall being considered  head coach of England might be less popular than having EJ, and that's saying something.

I agree with you! I found it surprising Austin would consider McCall an option.

Rossm

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With everything surrounding Saracens at the moment (and probably for some time too) would McCall be an option in reality?

On this forum, McCall being considered  head coach of England might be less popular than having EJ, and that's saying something.

I agree with you! I found it surprising Austin would consider McCall an option.

I think Austen had to come up with a couple of names for his article and he chose two who would probably not actually be in the running.
SLAVA UKRAINI!
HEROYAM SLAVA!

Neils

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Good article - love the Paolo comments.

Love him or hate him Austin is onbthe money again.
Let me tell you something cucumber

RogerE

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Not often I agree with Austin, but most of the article I agree with.
.
Like others disagree with his choices of replacement - Baxter and McCall both are formulaic and would require more access to players.

Reading comments from Hurricanes fans Gatland could be available soon!

mike909

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I like Austin. Perhaps he just reminds me of the mouthy little 9's who would shout at me at loose head and my hooker....thinking they knew about propping! I liked him as a player too.

Great article - says many of the things I've thought in recent times re Eddie - but the killer part for me is this:
Quote
But these are cumulative problems; the players have been in that squad so long that they don’t forget things that have been said. If you want to disrupt them, you naturally go against what you said before, but then you risk looking hypocritical.

A quick look back to Feb 2017 and the 6N's selection, and you might be surprised just how many names are still regulars. That the first pick spine of a team has remained virtually unchanged for ages (indeed from 2016, the key changes are only the flankers and full back...) means that too many players seem under little pressure for their place. Indeed the team picked vs Italy this season is virtually the team blue printed from the start.

That Jones doesn't want players forcing their way in, or challenging the "spine" is clear from the shadow squad - in a year when you have only 28 in the main squad - why pick players who aren't pressing for selection? And it seems the views of Brown and others on the clique and the treatment of Danny in SA might have ore than a whiff of truth about them....

Monye suggested the squad had come to an end (it had rather earlier imo) and Healy says the same re the coach suggests change is required. And in many ways - sooner rather than later. Or else  - as the saying goes - we'll end up where we're heading...

Nigel Med

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Saturday's abject performance makes me think that Jones has lost the changing room apart from his select band of (mostly Sarries) favourites, almost all of whom are badly off form and should have been no where near the squad. I am sure that the tactics for the match were dictated by Jones and most of the players appeared to have little enthusiasm for playing that way, particularly after playing so well against France by keeping the ball in hand, and unsurprisingly lost the match. He has reached the end of the line, a new coach will inject some belief and passion back into the squad which is desperately needed.

As for who could replace him, I don't get the obsession with successful club coaches. International coaching is VERY different, you get access to the players for around nine weeks a year. Baxter for example, massively successful though he has undoubtedly been, is coaching the team he played for, has full time access to his players and has been able to instil a remarkable team spirit and ethos that would be impossible to achieve with a mixture of players from other teams in a very limited time span. If England A/Saxons every get resurrected I would push for Baxter to coach them for a couple of seasons to see if he's got what it takes to step up to international coaching. Chucking him in the deep end with England would be madness. England have to look for a coach with International experience. Gatland would be an obvious choice and I would be as overjoyed as Welsh supporters would be dismayed if he were appointed. I'm sure that if the RFU came calling he could be lured back to the British Isles.

hookender

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Would prefer an English coach myself ( I thought one of the briefs when EJ signed originally was to bring on a coach under him) but Warren would be a good choice.

westwaleswasp

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I am struggling to recall Clive Woodward's international experience prior to England, but, IIRC, I think he had none- not even Saxons level coaching or similar.

Personally, I do not think international experience as top dog is a pre requisite, it narrows the pool too much. Internationally speaking, Eddie had plenty of experience prior to us and it has turned out on average no better than his predecessors, with higher highs and lower lows.
I think understanding of the club game here is a desirable feature to have-  Johnson had no English club experience as coach or  DOR, Lancaster little, an Eddie not a huge amount - half a year with Saracens, but Ashton had a little more on his CV and SCW had some too at Bath and Irish
All those vastly different backgrounds don't really have much correlation with success, save for the fact that the least successful coach had no experience at all beyond playing.
Obviously if Warren was available then great, but if you look at world cup winning coaches they did not all have experience of being top dog internationally with smaller nations before being appointed.