Wasps, Quo Vadis?

[Bloke in North Dorset]

Wombles made a comment on the Hummel thread that crystallised something I've been thinking about for a while:

Although the on field performances have struggled this season, there is good things happening. Training facility, sponsorship, stadium development, new -odd named - bar.....Could be worse!

Its become obvious that Derek has a medium to long term vision, not just for the Rugby team but for Wasps as a brand/club and is prepared to invest in the people who will develop and deliver that vision. The men's rugby team has to be the foundations for that vision so it would be interesting to know how he sees it going.

When Lee was appointed he must have sat down with Derek and Stephen to discuss that vision and the role the men's rugby team is going to play in delivering it. Does Derek want to see an Exeter approach of building a team based around local talent with outsiders brought in where necessary and take a long term approach or a Bristol/Sarries approach where instant success is needed and, within limits, money is no object? (In Sarries' case there seems to have been no monetary limits either)

Did they discuss the style that they they want the rugby team to play? Is winning more important than style? Presumably this will be reflected in to the women's game and netball?

Obviously Covid has had an impact but I can't see it changing a vision, perhaps the timescales and financial resources.

FWIW, looking at the investments to date I think Derek wants to see a team built around Wasps developed players and that the Academy is going to be the pipeline, with the odd star or senior players brought in where needed. That strikes me as the best way to build a brand and loyal fan base, rather than a fickle fan base that's only there for the wins and will disappear in bad times. It also strikes me as the more financially sound approach.

I also think from what Lee has said that its not going to be all throwing the ball around with gay abandon with the motto that we'll score more than them. Attack and free flowing rugby based on a solid forwards platform appears to be the approach, but obviously there are trade-offs, especially with salary caps either imposed from the outside or because of financial constraints.

Its a shame the club is so coy about sharing the vision (unless I've missed something), I think whatever it is it will generate more loyalty and understanding in the fan base and make for more informed discussions on here and elsewhere

[NellyWellyWaspy]

I am not so sure that Bristol (and possibly also Sale) are not also making associated payments under the table (maybe to and from third parties) that would, in any decent person's understanding of the salary cap, be well outside what is acceptable.

For example, a third party (but associated) offshore company (that is not under the gaze or purview of UK authorities) making 'investments' in PI or SA property, social amenities, grass roots sports, businesses, etc. that the players themselves have no obvious direct connection with.

But, it would require the sort of in depth investigation and powers that only the Inland Revenue could undertake. Could the English RFU persuade the club owners to give them the same powers? I do not see that happening any time before Hell Freezes Over.

It would thus rely on whistleblowers, which is probably what happened at Sarries. Dirty owners sully the game.

[westwaleswasp]

I think what brings some in is on field style, as well as off field rugby values.
I think we do pretty well on the latter front currently- I am not talking about ticketing or talking to fans but community activities and the values we see displayed.
On field style is important- Wasps have never had a pro team that simply aims to dominate the set piece and thinks wings are for aeroplanes. We saw the advertising about 'playing exciting rugby's superimposed over Wadey, who was the embodiment of exciting. The Wasp DNA is set towards an aim to play exciting rugby, with forwards who can handle. We have a history of cultured tens with vision and 9s who get bums off seats. I think the current crop of youngsters over the last year are in that mould of exciting players.

[Brandnewtorugby]

That looks like the aim, apparently Derek doesn't have bottomless pockets like some owners, so Wasps have to find a way to wash their face.

For playing strategy the turning point in my mind was the big influx from the academy a year or so ago as we let some big names go without replacement. Not sure there is a massive difference between Dai and Lee, Lee seems slightly less cautious about playing some of the younger guys than Dai, who was perhaps more conservative with selection (in my view). The championship has been an excellent source of experienced players for both DoR, seems to just take a couple of years to really shine from there, perhaps there is more time and investment for conditioning in the premiership.

[InBetweenWasp]

I'd like think that Pat Lam, after his interview on The Rugby Pod shortly after the Salary Cap scandal, would stay an honourable man.  He seemed very candid about how they work the cap. 

Despite a number of high-profile players they still do have a team of waifs and strays (a bit like the Wasps of old) who are playing very well.  I think Bristol's problem isn't one of are they breaking the cap, but more how do they keep their squad without breaking the cap as the likes of Sheedy and Piers O'Connor are surely likely to be seeking pay rises (as well as their young scrum-half - can't remember his name).

Sale sounded pretty fishy, but also was a lot of rumour and little fact (like the DuPreez brothers effectively having one of them as a Marquee and then other two on a pretty minimal salary wage but they then share it equally amongst themselves to get around paying all 3 handsomely). 

Back to Wasps and yes, it does feel like the tide is turning somewhat and off of the pitch the business is beginning to get itself sorted.  I don't think the on-pitch results are that far off, it's just such fine margins in this league and I too am encouraged by the prevalence of academy players coming through.  Just hoping that poor old Joe, Alfie and Jack catch a break and can enjoy a season without injury at some point!

[DGP Wasp]

I think there was a short term strategy as part of a long term plan when we first moved to Coventry and there was a need to generate local interest, so we saw the likes of Beale, Smith, Le Roux to put bums on seats plus the return of Cips and Hask to do the same while also reinforcing ties with the "old" Wasps.  This in turn would deliver the results allied to an entertaining style of play that would bring in even more punters.  For a few years it got silly every January with Wasps being linked any and every player who was thought to be on the move that summer.  Fair to say this approach worked and Wasps have established a strong fan base in the area off the back of it.  It also served to plug a gap when the steady flow of talent we'd always enjoyed from the academy reduced to more of a trickle around that time.

Now we have a strong local fan base in place and the academy production line is in great shape, the need for big names almost for the sake of it is no longer there and the last couple of years have seen a more long term approach more in line with how Exeter got to where they are now.  Bring the local talent through and plug gaps with carefully targeted, experienced players who will strengthen the team and develop the youngsters.   I'd be pretty confident that this was always Derek's plan.

[Steve from Cov]

Wombles made a comment on the Hummel thread that crystallised something I've been thinking about for a while:

Although the on field performances have struggled this season, there is good things happening. Training facility, sponsorship, stadium development, new -odd named - bar.....Could be worse!

Its become obvious that Derek has a medium to long term vision, not just for the Rugby team but for Wasps as a brand/club and is prepared to invest in the people who will develop and deliver that vision. The men's rugby team has to be the foundations for that vision so it would be interesting to know how he sees it going.

When Lee was appointed he must have sat down with Derek and Stephen to discuss that vision and the role the men's rugby team is going to play in delivering it. Does Derek want to see an Exeter approach of building a team based around local talent with outsiders brought in where necessary and take a long term approach or a Bristol/Sarries approach where instant success is needed and, within limits, money is no object? (In Sarries' case there seems to have been no monetary limits either)

Did they discuss the style that they they want the rugby team to play? Is winning more important than style? Presumably this will be reflected in to the women's game and netball?

Obviously Covid has had an impact but I can't see it changing a vision, perhaps the timescales and financial resources.

FWIW, looking at the investments to date I think Derek wants to see a team built around Wasps developed players and that the Academy is going to be the pipeline, with the odd star or senior players brought in where needed. That strikes me as the best way to build a brand and loyal fan base, rather than a fickle fan base that's only there for the wins and will disappear in bad times. It also strikes me as the more financially sound approach.

I also think from what Lee has said that its not going to be all throwing the ball around with gay abandon with the motto that we'll score more than them. Attack and free flowing rugby based on a solid forwards platform appears to be the approach, but obviously there are trade-offs, especially with salary caps either imposed from the outside or because of financial constraints.

Its a shame the club is so coy about sharing the vision (unless I've missed something), I think whatever it is it will generate more loyalty and understanding in the fan base and make for more informed discussions on here and elsewhere

+1.

[will311293]

Plus if we start seeing true Coventry lads turning out for the team, on top of the flourishing Academy, it always helps. Make the team feel settled into the area.

[Neils]

Let's not forget when suggesting little information comes from the club that before Covid (seems strange saying Pre-Covid as a timeframe) held Fans Forums and information was circulated on here and other avenues. I am sure the club will restart these when it is safe to do so.

[hookender]

I know primarily we are only interested in the rugby side of things, but I was pleasantly surprised to read in a recent article that the netball side have an academy set up as well. So future long term planning in place already, must show how the ‘brand’ is going.

[RogerE]

I know primarily we are only interested in the rugby side of things, but I was pleasantly surprised to read in a recent article that the netball side have an academy set up as well. So future long term planning in place already, must show how the ‘brand’ is going.

One of my gymnasts was also in the Wasps netball academy - then she transferred to, what was then, Hatfield Mavericks academy, as she found it easier to get to their sessions.

Hatfield was then "taken over" by Saracens - so we agreed not to talk about it...