Referee style, too many laws, or players?

[wasps]

A few comments have been made about referees and CMK in particular, both before and after today's game..

Mostly in reference to this pedantic nature and lack of empathy with the game and players.


Is it really his fault though if he's blowing the whistle more than other refs?

There are so many laws and directives in the game. Is it really for the referee to choose which he feels like applying and when?


We often say that backchat or other forms of poor behaviour would soon be eradicated if referees punished them each time.
However, we don't want certain infringements punished every time.
We also complain that things like crooked feeds or marginal offsides are rarely blown for.



I really feel that we often have refs we like and refs we don't.
Some refs get credit for making big calls, but rarely have their bad calls highlighted... For other refs, it's the other way round.

I think it's the same for "empathy with the game". If it's a ref who is liked, then missing certain calls is classed as letting the game be played.... For other refs, missing the same decision would be called out as a reason why they're not officiating at higher levels of the game.




Ultimately, it's a game with a lot of laws, and if it's the players who are disobeying the laws, then maybe it shouldn't be the refs that are blamed if they're blowing the whistle

[NellyWellyWaspy]

My opinion, FWIW (not a lot), is that CMK had a good day at the office today. The team worked well together.

[Neils]

Listening to CMK on the Reflink he came across as human for the first time. He explained virtually every stoppage (Not his fault) to both sides. He was quite funny at times with some of his quips and asides. My only gripe was the amount of time he gave Biggar. - plus never picking him up on stealing ground at every kick. I must admit we were surprised by this change because he has been virtually silent on previous matches.
However his touch judges view of offside left much to be desired.

[Chunky24]

Listening to CMK on the Reflink he came across as human for the first time. He explained virtually every stoppage (Not his fault) to both sides. He was quite funny at times with some of his quips and asides. My only gripe was the amount of time he gave Biggar. - plus never picking him up on stealing ground at every kick. I must admit we were surprised by this change because he has been virtually silent on previous matches.
However his touch judges view of offside left much to be desired.

Agree, thought he was very good on relink.

Think one thing that makes referees look a bit pedantic and seeming to blow the whistle a lot is that advantage for penalties can go on for quite a while now and still be bought back. That makes the ref look like he is stopping the game for something technical which happened a while back, for example the 3 jumping across lineout penalties we gave away, and no so not letting it flow despite actually trying to do that with the long advantage.

[HDAWG]

CMK was fine for both sides.

Though I'll say the laws, in particular with the breakdown, need work. If I'm sat at home watching think it's as easy to understand as calculus with complex numbers, how in the world is a player in the heat of the moment meant to make the right decision.

[westwaleswasp]

In the past Cmk has, for me, had two problems that link in. He blows a bit more than others, which couples with his slightly officious style of interaction has not been a great combination. Unlike many refs, he will give long series of pens against teams. Some others tend to be more back and forth unless one team is under the pump, and others  tend to brandish yellows more easily,  and on that respect cmk has always been quite brave. Historically he often let things go in the first 20, and struggled to gain control after as a consequence, as if he sets out to let it flow and then has to clamp down as players push their luck at the breakdown.

Today I thought he improved in that his style was markedly less officious, and he clearly explained his decisions, whilst he definitely was consistent throughout the game. This has been something he has improved upon. He also worked with the TMO et al well. He set his stall out early.
I feel he probably does whistle more than some others still, but that in itself is not a bad thing, as long as he is consistent, which he was.
I suspect he has simply taken longer to relax and become confident in himself than others.
I think most refs would have given red, but I can see an argument for yellow. 

I think there are two camps on the breakdown. A - the laws are there and work if they are enforced and B the laws are in need of overhaul.

[Marlow Nick]

I think there are two camps on the breakdown. A - the laws are there and work if they are enforced and B the laws are in need of overhaul.

You missed C the laws are too tough for my team and not tough enough for the opposition 😉

[Bloke in North Dorset]

I agree with westwaleswasp, he has his style and as long as he’s consistent the players know where they stand and can play the game. 

My observation, and this may be a recent thing, is that he gets in the way too often.  It sounded like he apologised a couple of times yesterday and he had that awful one in R1 where he got in the way of a good attack and didn’t even award the attacking side a scrum.   

[mike909]

In the past Cmk has, for me, had two problems that link in. He blows a bit more than others, which couples with his slightly officious style of interaction has not been a great combination. Unlike many refs, he will give long series of pens against teams. Some others tend to be more back and forth unless one team is under the pump, and others  tend to brandish yellows more easily,  and on that respect cmk has always been quite brave. Historically he often let things go in the first 20, and struggled to gain control after as a consequence, as if he sets out to let it flow and then has to clamp down as players push their luck at the breakdown.

Today I thought he improved in that his style was markedly less officious, and he clearly explained his decisions, whilst he definitely was consistent throughout the game. This has been something he has improved upon. He also worked with the TMO et al well. He set his stall out early.
I feel he probably does whistle more than some others still, but that in itself is not a bad thing, as long as he is consistent, which he was.
I suspect he has simply taken longer to relax and become confident in himself than others.
I think most refs would have given red, but I can see an argument for yellow. 

I think there are two camps on the breakdown. A - the laws are there and work if they are enforced and B the laws are in need of overhaul.

Agree re CMK and yesterday

Breakdown. Firstly, several of the Laws as written had not been enforced well over the last 5 or 6 years. Nigel Owens made some - for me - vg points on this matter recently.

Secondly, World Rugby have issued guidance due to their concerns about the Laws being enforced and the impact on the flow of the game on the breakdown.

https://www.world.rugby/news/568557

CMK did - for me - demonstrated some of the ways players and fans etc can be confused. One breakdown he awarded us a penalty "because the Saints player was second (Saints) player in" The problem if the Laws are applied - is that if it's a ruck, no one has writes to the ball with hands*. Even the Saint's first player wasn't first to the tackle (Wasps were) and so didn't have rights to the ball with hands

*The only exception being - IF you are first to the tackle - and have hands on ball (on feet etc) prior to a ruck being formed.

The Laws as written mean it's quite rare for a defender to have rights to the ball at tackle with their hands. It can be effectively officiated. And I know Mitre 10 as was isn't SR/The Prem, but the refs there were calling "Tackle" "Release" "Roll" "Ruck" so players had a trigger for their obligations and rights at the tackle/breakdown.

Outcomes of this was faster ball, less danger for players. I'd certainly like the breakdown played per the Laws and reffed consistently in a way to facilitate compliance.

Other matters - I would welcome someone's comments on the maul which does appear a mess where you can legally have players blocking the ball carrier....and it seems too easy to get pinged.

[InBetweenWasp]

I’ve definitely noticed a trend (for me).  Broadly speaking, when watching a game on TV most decisions the Prem Reds make are clear and fair, there might be the odd contentious or slightly contentious decision.

When watching in a stadium, often it feels way more hit and miss.

Interesting that those who have reflink thought CMK was alright, those of us who didn’t were bewildered at a few of the decision and/or consistency.

[Steve from Cov]

All Premiership referees have to cope with a TMO chirping in their ear about misdemeanours. They can’t ignore those calls.

[Neils]

I’ve definitely noticed a trend (for me).  Broadly speaking, when watching a game on TV most decisions the Prem Reds make are clear and fair, there might be the odd contentious or slightly contentious decision.

When watching in a stadium, often it feels way more hit and miss.

Interesting that those who have reflink thought CMK was alright, those of us who didn’t were bewildered at a few of the decision and/or consistency.

The Reflink makes a huge difference as you can hear the thought processes being enacted. BUT yesterday was a revelation as far as CMK was concerned.  He has always been almost silent through a game only speaking when absolutely necessary but yesterday each action was explained to the teams and you understood why he was halting and going back. Plus he was actually quite funny at times. Bonkers change. Let's hope it continues.

[NellyWellyWaspy]

His quip when caught in the middle of the lineout was very Owens'esque.

Joking for them to wait as he didn't want to get lifted.