Wasps v Gloucester: Post match thoughts.

[Andywasp50]

Ultimately though the league table doesn’t lie. Three wins out of eight games isn’t impressive and whilst we all know we’ve been hammered by injuries, the S&C and ability to put a decent side out on the pitch all has to come down to management and accountability. If it was all down to luck and fortune then there wouldn’t be consistently high performing teams.

We’re great in some areas, second and back row for example, and average in the front row. Umaga is too flaky and at times so bad that after three years he’s not consistent enough to be a first choice 10 - as mentioned above he should be growing into a leader, a senior player and an example, but he’s becoming a passenger instead. Porter is no better than a very average back up 9, if that, and Booj has been better than I anticipated this season but isn’t consistently Prem standard. I think we underestimate how much we rely on Gopperth and Fekitoa for their experience as well as skill - without at least one of them the midfield is flimsy.

Unfortunately we’re between a rock and a hard place trying to balance the books and put a decent side together on a restricted budget. Attendances are dropping and there doesn’t seem much to inspire a visit to the CBS still with our home form - not just this season but the last four.

Sadly there’s no knowing who’ll get injured next or if returnees will be in the side for long based on the experience of the last three years, but harbouring dreams of a full strength side playing three or four games is a fantasy. Unfortunately I think a finish lower than last season’s eighth won’t be good enough for Blackett to get a new contract and maybe some players with it.

[Wombles]

For me Lee Blackett is the one thing we must keep the same. For such a young coach he has a philosophy and approach I find refreshing. I hate doing comparisons from football, but I remember a certain Alex Ferguson struggling when he started out at Man Utd, however he had qualities that resonated, and look where that led. I have a gut feeling that Lee could be that successful in a rugby sense.

Last night felt like this is a loss the players need to own. You cannot fault the effort, it was the lack of control and direction that alarmed. Injuries have forced us to promote quickly loanees and signings from the championship who are needing to find their feet rapidly (indeed we may of uncovered a couple of gems that long term will become key premiership standard players for us). But players who have been around for longer such as Jacob, Porter, Booj need to start being consistently better. There are now no excuses for facilities as we have a stadium and training ground that is world class. Unfortunately not every player makes it, and Booj has had long enough to show us if he could make the next step, and the horrible truth IMHO is he can’t. He hasn’t lacked for for effort or opportunity, he just lacks that ability and last night was clear demonstration of such.
I do think Jacob will get there, but he needs to look very hard at himself and his performances. His kicking from hand and the tee is improving, but his ball handling needs much work, and his game management now needs to come together. If you want to be a 10 you need to show you can run the show. This is why I am frustrated with him, he has every ingredient he needs to be right up there al la Marcus Smith, he is currently not realising that potential...and I would hate to see another talent not realise what they could become, we already had to witness that with Cips who could of been so much more than he is.

This week for the whole team needs to hurt....putting on the black and gold is a privilege, and they belong to a club rich in history and heritage. Last night has to be a line in the sand, this needs to be a loss that is used to lead to success, and we need to see a performance against Worcester that dominates. Lee needs to get the whole squad, both injured and playing, the coaches, the S&C, Pudsey and the support staff all together and unite them. Rugby clubs are only successful If we all share the same vision, have the same unity and the same drive. We can get back to winning silverware, but that journey needs to start now.

[coddy]

Great post Wombles, I agree with every word.

Now is not a time to panic or sulk it's a time to reflect and knuckle down to some hard work on the training ground, I'm very confident we will finish the season a few places higher up the table than we are now.

[WonkyWasp]

Plus  1

[Bloke in North Dorset]

"Finally, take a bow Luke Pearce. Impressive performance."

Yes, top class. Perhaps a bit too jokey with the players at times but tries to keep the game moving and I wouldn't have blamed him if he'd pinged Porter for being really slow.

[NellyWellyWaspy]

"Finally, take a bow Luke Pearce. Impressive performance."

Yes, top class. Perhaps a bit too jokey with the players at times but tries to keep the game moving and I wouldn't have blamed him if he'd pinged Porter for being really slow.

Yes, he did have a good game.

[Rugbyintheblood]

Bobby Bridge’s match report, as always, right on the button. But I had a few thoughts myself ….

1. I am wondering if Eddie Jones was doing the last minute team selection after several of our back line had to withdraw at short notice?
I can’t help wondering what the result would have been if we had started with Gopperth in the centre and Josh back on the wing. IMHO I dont think Glaws would have been able to get that match-winning lead by half-time, as they did.

2. Glaws back line is stuffed full of Internationals so it was no surprise that they could dance through (May) and stroll through (12Trees) our open spaces in the centre.

3. We are great in the line out now but still weak in the scrum, coughing up too many penalties in kickable positions.

4. Never seen us look so rusty! Poor old Josh didn’t hv a chance the way Booj was firing out his passes. But he wasn’t the only one.

5. We couldn’t build any momentum in the 1st half because we we’re frequently dropping the ball and giving away scrum penalties whenever we started to look threatening.

6. By the time Jimmy came on, the game was already lost so we were chasing a losing BP. And what a difference he made, Jimmy instantly transformed our back line ….. seeing the disaster of the back line experiment I’d hv brought him in in the 41st minute!

7. Alfie Barbeary. What a very special player he is. I didn’t imagine our back row could be improved last night so wasn’t expecting the huge go forward in momentum that we got from Alfie - he’s undoubtedly a force of nature. He is a real bruiser and drive over the gain line thru Glaws pack desperately trying to suppress his awesome thrusts.

8. And then, given some organisation in the backs and the forwards not conceding scrum penalties - the fight back was able to emerge.

9. Jacob. Yes he dropped a pass or two but he was fantastic for much of the match, creating something out of nothing, scoring tries and kicking superbly. So yes he has the odd brain fart but to me he played pretty well last night. The magic moment for me was when he swivelled through Atkinson’s attempted tackle to score, right in front of my position in the stand. His fumble at the end was unfortunate but somebody got in his way (couldn’t see who it was). At this stage, IMHO Jacob’s the least of our issues!

11. I also want to recognise that Glaws were just too good for us last night. They spotted our weaknesses before the match and could see where they could beat us - and they deserved their win.

12. We should also recognise that this Wasps team have a burning pride and a huge spirit. So congratulations lads, you damn near did it.

So where do we go from here? Well I don’t think we’re far away from having a very good rest of season.

Here’s my Action Plan:
- sign up that young Argentinian prop, as rumoured to be imminent. (And his best mate too).
- pick players in their correct position, at least to start the match. (Don’t ever hv an Eddie Jones moment again).
- continue with injured players’ rehab. Imagine what it’s going to be like to have great starters And finishers!
- re-build our confidence - we are a Top Team!

[mike909]

Plus  1

+2

I do think that the signs are promising. Yes - as Wombles says - this one probably needs to be owned, at least in part by the players - but recognising that the injury crisis probably means that we're near over achieving in reality - with players being replaced within an hour of kick off - in a team where some combinations have never played.....

If anything - the game demonstrated that coordination of the basics, defence and game management and organisation of lines and the like - is much harder to "busk" than the attack. We have lots of attacking options and will score - we won on try count. Once we have players back, then defence and organisation will improve - but we must keep the ability to score.....

Jimmy did improve game management - there are things to think about - obviously, but if you'd offered 5 tries, I'd have bitten your hand off. I'd have been rather less keen on the defensive frailties that allow easy scores.

[Chunky24]

Some people need to take a long hard look at themselves. I think umaga is lucky Atkinson is injured. Unfortunately I think Jacob is one of those players that will drift out of top flight rugby, for all is moments of brilliance his basics are just not good enough we get 20% brilliant 40% ok and 40% rubbish and that’s doesn’t stack up for a top flight player.

He hasn't played with a consistent back line for a couple of seasons now yet is still expected to produce worldie tries out them by the supporters every game, you are going to get that mix if that is the situation and expectation.

Nobody is expecting him to create worldie try’s every game. What I do expect is my number 10 to control a game and do the basics right and unfortunately most of the time Jacob doesn’t do that and that has nothing to do with who he’s playing with, knock ons, aimless kicks and weak under a high ball when challenged is all down to him and nothing to do with his team mates

Majority of wasps supporters talk about wanting a Jacob/ cips type fly half to play the wasps way rather than a "boring" farrell/ pollard who base their game on doing the basics you mention right and are proven game / tournament winners.
On the "10" thread i have also pointed out Jacobs lack of prior 10 experience so needing to develop game management as he goes.

[hookender]

"Finally, take a bow Luke Pearce. Impressive performance."

Yes, top class. Perhaps a bit too jokey with the players at times but tries to keep the game moving and I wouldn't have blamed him if he'd pinged Porter for being really slow.

My only gripe was he warned Gloucester a number of times about offside ,before finally pinging . Would have helped Porter get the ball away slightly easier. Also had warned Hastings about pinching  yardage at penalty kicks to touch . He then caught Hastings tossing kicking tee forward at a penalty kick and made him put it back. In my mind he was on a warning, so should be a yellow, or possibly reverse descision?

[Bloke in North Dorset]

There's no doubt Booj had a bad game, but he wasn't alone. We should also remember he was brought as a squad player to provide occasional cover, maybe coming off the bench when were down a bit or needed to rest some players. He'd probably have been a starter in the Cup games.

Instead he's become a starter in most games through our injury crises and has mostly done a reasonable job, holding his own and occasionally doing something exceptional.

If he doesn't get his contract renewed we still need someone to fill that role, someone who is happy as a squad player and can step up if and when needed. Top flight centres won't want to come in and play a squad role.

[Covkid40]

Bobby Bridge’s match report, as always, right on the button. But I had a few thoughts myself ….

1. I am wondering if Eddie Jones was doing the last minute team selection after several of our back line had to withdraw at short notice?
I can’t help wondering what the result would have been if we had started with Gopperth in the centre and Josh back on the wing. IMHO I dont think Glaws would have been able to get that match-winning lead by half-time, as they did.

2. Glaws back line is stuffed full of Internationals so it was no surprise that they could dance through (May) and stroll through (12Trees) our open spaces in the centre.

3. We are great in the line out now but still weak in the scrum, coughing up too many penalties in kickable positions.

4. Never seen us look so rusty! Poor old Josh didn’t hv a chance the way Booj was firing out his passes. But he wasn’t the only one.

5. We couldn’t build any momentum in the 1st half because we we’re frequently dropping the ball and giving away scrum penalties whenever we started to look threatening.

6. By the time Jimmy came on, the game was already lost so we were chasing a losing BP. And what a difference he made, Jimmy instantly transformed our back line ….. seeing the disaster of the back line experiment I’d hv brought him in in the 41st minute!

7. Alfie Barbeary. What a very special player he is. I didn’t imagine our back row could be improved last night so wasn’t expecting the huge go forward in momentum that we got from Alfie - he’s undoubtedly a force of nature. He is a real bruiser and drive over the gain line thru Glaws pack desperately trying to suppress his awesome thrusts.

8. And then, given some organisation in the backs and the forwards not conceding scrum penalties - the fight back was able to emerge.

9. Jacob. Yes he dropped a pass or two but he was fantastic for much of the match, creating something out of nothing, scoring tries and kicking superbly. So yes he has the odd brain fart but to me he played pretty well last night. The magic moment for me was when he swivelled through Atkinson’s attempted tackle to score, right in front of my position in the stand. His fumble at the end was unfortunate but somebody got in his way (couldn’t see who it was). At this stage, IMHO Jacob’s the least of our issues!

11. I also want to recognise that Glaws were just too good for us last night. They spotted our weaknesses before the match and could see where they could beat us - and they deserved their win.

12. We should also recognise that this Wasps team have a burning pride and a huge spirit. So congratulations lads, you damn near did it.

So where do we go from here? Well I don’t think we’re far away from having a very good rest of season.

Here’s my Action Plan:
- sign up that young Argentinian prop, as rumoured to be imminent. (And his best mate too).
- pick players in their correct position, at least to start the match. (Don’t ever hv an Eddie Jones moment again).
- continue with injured players’ rehab. Imagine what it’s going to be like to have great starters And finishers!
- re-build our confidence - we are a Top Team!

Apart from your Barbeary comments I genuinely have no idea what game you where watching but it wasn’t the same one as me

[NellyWellyWaspy]

You know, assuming that Quins, Falcons and Saracens win their games, we could be 8th by the end of the weekend?

With such a rag tag team right now, that's not so bad. Somebody asked who I might think would not get contract renewals? I think Watson and Minozzi.

So, what did I, in the cold light of day, notice most? The missed tackles, the gaping holes in defence lines? The brain farts, dropped balls, fumbles? The scrum penalties, penalties in general?

No, the lack of supporting running lines. In the few times we did break through, there were few or no intelligent support lines being run. The sort that Robson, Tom Willis, Frost, JTA and Oghre tend to make. No one to offload to.

[backdoc]

When [if] everyone returns fit and well, we will have a strong group of loose heads [West, Harris, Hislop, Argentine] and hookers, and the same weak/erratic/unfit group of tightheads.

Are we gambling on one or two emerging from the academy [and how realistic is that]? We have to sort it out otherwise the penalties alone put us 9+ points behind every game.

[Chunky24]

When [if] everyone returns fit and well, we will have a strong group of loose heads [West, Harris, Hislop, Argentine] and hookers, and the same weak/erratic/unfit group of tightheads.

Are we gambling on one or two emerging from the academy [and how realistic is that]? We have to sort it out otherwise the penalties alone put us 9+ points behind every game.

Past couple of home premiership games including last night vast majority of scrum penalties been against Hislop on LH not JTA on tight.
JTA made most tackles last night, Miller Mills good impact but agree another TH is needed as Scholtz doesn't seem to be the answer.