The question everybody is asking.......................

[Egret]

Agree with the over-riding sentiment of the piece, but to hold Jones accountable for LCD's brain fart is perhaps stretching a point!

Also hard to blame Eddie for the two penalties Itojie gave in those last 15 minutes

[Skippy]

Bigad82 -- I have tickets for the Ireland game,as it is Eddie has made it quite unappealing.

Might be worth it to (a) see great quality rugby (from Ireland, obvs) and (b) a chance to check out Eddie's potential successor.

[matelot22]

I've completely lost interest in England under EJ. We left Sandy Park with the intention of watching the England game, a couple of the 5 in our party still wanted to watch, but even they lost interest fairly quickly in the same old robotic, rugby by numbers approach.

[Westy68]

Would everyone make the substitution as soon as LCD got yellow carded

[baldpaul101]

I do find the way everyone piles into coaches when they have problems slightly unpleasant, although plenty in media are loving putting the knife in to Jones and I guess may well have good reasons!

I would remind everyone that Andy Farrell, currently the wonder coach of Ireland was as much despised when he was in the England coaching ranks as Jones is now.

Coaches come & go but one thing that can be relied upon seems to be the hatred of supporters when things go wrong

[Shugs]

The worrying thing is that I’ve spoken to loads of people who have lost some passion for England with Jones in charge. It’s understandable. Ridiculous selections, extremely dull rugby, childish nonsense that the media seem intent on classing as genius like mind games and to cap it all we’re not winning many games. Jones has huge resources at his disposal and it’s a crying shame that he’s just frittered it all away. What does he need to do to get sacked? It’s hard to imagine but whilst he sticks with the England side the fans are less inclined to.

[Rossm]

I do find the way everyone piles into coaches when they have problems slightly unpleasant, although plenty in media are loving putting the knife in to Jones and I guess may well have good reasons!

I would remind everyone that Andy Farrell, currently the wonder coach of Ireland was as much despised when he was in the England coaching ranks as Jones is now.

Coaches come & go but one thing that can be relied upon seems to be the hatred of supporters when things go wrong

I've extracted the following from the article which I think is particularly pertinent:

Jones has overseen 11 wins in their last 21 Championship matches. That is a desperate return for a country of those resources. In this same period, only Italy have a worse ratio. That is not a blip.

Also, of course, at least 3 of England's 10 wins would have been against Italy whch has a 33 game losing streak!

[Mellie]

Smith kicked the penalty in the 63rd minute to take the visitors seven points ahead ...
No matter that Smith had scored all 17 points, no matter that this 22-year-old had wrested all the momentum for his side - it said on the flowchart that Ford was to play the last quarter and Eddie’s flowcharts never lie.

Exactly, England were getting more moment at the time. So you don't try to close the game out. You up the tempo a bit and drive your advantage home to widen the gap.

The call should have been to take off Youngs, who's pedestrian tempo was an issue, and get Randall to do what he does. Become a threat himself or provide faster ball for the backs. That's what Smith needed. Didn't surprise me at all though that Smith went instead.

George could have come on for the lineout throw, permanently sacrificing a particular background player. Should have been Simmonds. Dombrant could then replace him at 8 after the sin bin.

Why Nowell came on when the clock was already in the red was probably the most bizarre decision of the lot!

[bigad82]

Bigad82 -- I have tickets for the Ireland game,as it is Eddie has made it quite unappealing.

Might be worth it to (a) see great quality rugby (from Ireland, obvs) and (b) a chance to check out Eddie's potential successor.

I can't disagree with anything you said there.

[Raggs]

Agree with the over-riding sentiment of the piece, but to hold Jones accountable for LCD's brain fart is perhaps stretching a point!

Also it was LCD who messed up not Jamie George

I think he was making the point that Jamie George should have been bought on as soon as LCD was yellow carded rather than the usual practice which is to wait for the next scrum. They could also have bought George on prior to the line out, the error was unquestionably allowing Marler to take the throw, that has to be the coaching staff's (i.e. Eddie jones) responsibility.

You would hope that an international team would be coached on how to deal with unusual circumstances like how to deal with being isolated facing a cross field kick. I'm not convinced that trying to catch the ball was the best option (although definitely better than deliberately knocking it into touch) It's too risky, spill the ball and the opposition winger picks it up and scores. catch it and go to ground and you run the risk of the winger winning a penalty for not releasing. Surely, as you are running across the pitch at pace, having noticed the advancing winger (which LCD definitely did) you allow him to go for the ball and time your run to clatter him. Good chance of him spilling the ball and you win a scrum or you drive him into touch and get the line out. Definitely lower risk. Would an International team not discuss these options in such a scenario? TCUP as Woodward used to preach. Noticeably absent from everyone in the England camp, players and coaches.

This journalist is a golf journalist first of all, not a rugby guy.

Next, when do you ever see the hooker replaced immediately? You don't. I'm 99% sure if you make the sub then, it's a permanent substitution, whoever goes off has to stay off, rather than doing it for a scrum, when you can bring the player back on.

[Rossm]

Agree with the over-riding sentiment of the piece, but to hold Jones accountable for LCD's brain fart is perhaps stretching a point!

Also it was LCD who messed up not Jamie George

I think he was making the point that Jamie George should have been bought on as soon as LCD was yellow carded rather than the usual practice which is to wait for the next scrum. They could also have bought George on prior to the line out, the error was unquestionably allowing Marler to take the throw, that has to be the coaching staff's (i.e. Eddie jones) responsibility.

You would hope that an international team would be coached on how to deal with unusual circumstances like how to deal with being isolated facing a cross field kick. I'm not convinced that trying to catch the ball was the best option (although definitely better than deliberately knocking it into touch) It's too risky, spill the ball and the opposition winger picks it up and scores. catch it and go to ground and you run the risk of the winger winning a penalty for not releasing. Surely, as you are running across the pitch at pace, having noticed the advancing winger (which LCD definitely did) you allow him to go for the ball and time your run to clatter him. Good chance of him spilling the ball and you win a scrum or you drive him into touch and get the line out. Definitely lower risk. Would an International team not discuss these options in such a scenario? TCUP as Woodward used to preach. Noticeably absent from everyone in the England camp, players and coaches.

This journalist is a golf journalist first of all, not a rugby guy.

Next, when do you ever see the hooker replaced immediately? You don't. I'm 99% sure if you make the sub then, it's a permanent substitution, whoever goes off has to stay off, rather than doing it for a scrum, when you can bring the player back on.

Yes you're correct. But surely Jamie George is good enough to be a permanent replacement and avoid the fiasco of Marler throwing in?

[DGP Wasp]

I've extracted the following from the article which I think is particularly pertinent:

Jones has overseen 11 wins in their last 21 Championship matches. That is a desperate return for a country of those resources. In this same period, only Italy have a worse ratio. That is not a blip.

Also, of course, at least 3 of England's 10 wins would have been against Italy whch has a 33 game losing streak!

4 of those were against Italy, so that's 7 from 17 against competitive teams.

(Played 4, won 2, lost 2 in that period against Wales, Ireland and France; played 5, won 1, drawn 1 and lost 3 against Scotland.)

[baldpaul101]

https://www.reddit.com/r/rugbyunion/comments/sn3ea6/joe_marler_does_commentary_on_his_throw_in/

Made me chuckle, wonder if this will get him into any trouble?
(warning some naughty words in that link for those offended by such things)

[mike909]

I think given the resources and the expectations for England - it is not wrong to question the coaching/direction when the returns on investment are starting to demonstrate some foibles. England's win percentage in the 6N since 2017 is around 50% and that includes two 5th places and record losing streak. That surely isn't good enough. It would be wrong for no pressure to be applied to the coach. He is in the end the one who picks the players, and decides upon strategies. And his must have some level of success criteria - like any of us do in our jobs/careers?

So after the last 6Ns where clearly selection and tactics was wrong, and what seemed like a rather gormless performance vs Scotland, Jones ought to be under pressure. I fully understand Jones' reputation, he has pulled off some great results for a number of teams, but his time at most of them has ended rather badly. Now most coaching regimes have a finite life - they tend to end with loses.....and it may be that Jones' England time is done.

And I am happy to question a coach who calls up what cannot be fully fit players and also seems to have too often recently seemingly looked to make his whims a success. And since the quotes about Lawrence, I'm afraid I have even less time for this coach's person management. There's a danger of Jones leaving England and our future players in a dip that might take some time to sort out.

And like other posters, I am finding it harder and harder to warm to Jones' England. I've been a supporter since my first game in 1973 at Twickenham vs France through being at RWC 87 and being thrilled to watch England training at Sydney Uni where I was working and having the piss taken by Welsh relatives. But I find the current England team hard to like or support. I was actually hoping Scotland would win......once they got ahead......

[Rossm]

https://www.reddit.com/r/rugbyunion/comments/sn3ea6/joe_marler_does_commentary_on_his_throw_in/

Made me chuckle, wonder if this will get him into any trouble?
(warning some naughty words in that link for those offended by such things)

That was hilarious. Doubt if mental Eddie thinks so