The question everybody is asking.......................

[Raggs]

Agree with the over-riding sentiment of the piece, but to hold Jones accountable for LCD's brain fart is perhaps stretching a point!

Also it was LCD who messed up not Jamie George

I think he was making the point that Jamie George should have been bought on as soon as LCD was yellow carded rather than the usual practice which is to wait for the next scrum. They could also have bought George on prior to the line out, the error was unquestionably allowing Marler to take the throw, that has to be the coaching staff's (i.e. Eddie jones) responsibility.

You would hope that an international team would be coached on how to deal with unusual circumstances like how to deal with being isolated facing a cross field kick. I'm not convinced that trying to catch the ball was the best option (although definitely better than deliberately knocking it into touch) It's too risky, spill the ball and the opposition winger picks it up and scores. catch it and go to ground and you run the risk of the winger winning a penalty for not releasing. Surely, as you are running across the pitch at pace, having noticed the advancing winger (which LCD definitely did) you allow him to go for the ball and time your run to clatter him. Good chance of him spilling the ball and you win a scrum or you drive him into touch and get the line out. Definitely lower risk. Would an International team not discuss these options in such a scenario? TCUP as Woodward used to preach. Noticeably absent from everyone in the England camp, players and coaches.

This journalist is a golf journalist first of all, not a rugby guy.

Next, when do you ever see the hooker replaced immediately? You don't. I'm 99% sure if you make the sub then, it's a permanent substitution, whoever goes off has to stay off, rather than doing it for a scrum, when you can bring the player back on.

Yes you're correct. But surely Jamie George is good enough to be a permanent replacement and avoid the fiasco of Marler throwing in?

George is definitely good enough to be on as a hooker permanently but which non hooker are you taking off permanently?

[WonkyWasp]

That is hilarious!!!

[WonkyWasp]

PS   I'm referring to Marler's 'throw in'.

[Mellie]

George is definitely good enough to be on as a hooker permanently but which non hooker are you taking off permanently?

Don't think anyone read my earlier post where I suggested Simmonds could have been removed permanently for George to come on and take the lineout throw. Dombrandt could have then come on at 8 after the sin bin was over.

[MarleyWasp]

That would have required logical thinking and as we all know Eddie doesn't use logical thinking...

[Raggs]

George is definitely good enough to be on as a hooker permanently but which non hooker are you taking off permanently?

Don't think anyone read my earlier post where I suggested Simmonds could have been removed permanently for George to come on and take the lineout throw. Dombrandt could have then come on at 8 after the sin bin was over.

As good as George is, he's not going to be as busy around the pitch as Simmonds. And during a period of 14 players, you want your most agile on the pitch.

Marler didn't really screw it up, Dombrandt did. He ran within the 5m, if he'd stayed back, it would have been fine.

[westwaleswasp]

Let the word go forward, if any member of the press has a picture of a work meeting in lockdown with Eddie and a crate of beer and 20 mates, now is the time.

[Bloke in North Dorset]

Let the word go forward, if any member of the press has a picture of a work meeting in lockdown with Eddie and a crate of beer and 20 mates, now is the time.

Slight flaw in your plan, that doesn’t appear to be a sackable or resigning offence, no matter how high you go up the greasy pole. 

[westwaleswasp]

OK, I will add in a goat in a compromising position.

[Mellie]

As good as George is, he's not going to be as busy around the pitch as Simmonds. And during a period of 14 players, you want your most agile on the pitch.

Marler didn't really screw it up, Dombrandt did. He ran within the 5m, if he'd stayed back, it would have been fine.

Didn't realise Dombrandt was already on. That makes it much harder to make a substitution until forced to by a scrum. Unfortunately for England that was immediately after the lineout.

[califauna]

That article is subscription bait. There is much more to it than the article would suggest.

We know the deal with Jones. He doesn't like the target on the back that comes with being favourites, he likes the underdog status, and he has said on a number of occasions he doesn't want the squad peaking until the right time (WC 2023) as no team can continually maintain peak performance. The RFU have also been very clear in their annual reports and public statements that the overriding priority is WC 2023. 

He's also looking for an edge, and he must, because we don't have the players and depth of SA, France, and arguably NZ.  That edge could come from versatility and squad flexibility (particularly with ongoing Covid nonsense, injuries, etc.), surprise factor (bolters, new tactics, concealed playing structures and formations, and lots of 'noise' for other teams to work through), mental toughness, peak performance timing for WC 2023, and other factors. 

The hybrid/total rugby mantra also plays very well into this strategy, as it has a short-term cost in terms of performance levels as players find feet in new positions, but long term gains with a view to WC 2023 (broader skills and generally raised ceiling for players, squad flexibility, etc.).

It all predicts under-performance between World Cups, especially mid-cycle, and that's exactly what we see with Eddie Jones' England.

Sandbagging isn't limited to F1, and there will be some amount of it going on at any one time in the Six Nations. Corporate sponsors won't allow broadsheets to labor too much on all that though. It's 'Rugby's Greatest Championship' after all, not just some sandpit for the world cup.

I do also question the shenanigans that go on sometimes, but I reckon England are generally in a good place with a view to WC 2023 personally.

[Marlow Nick]

Squidge Rugby has another excellant analysis of the match that suggests subbing Ford for Smith wasn't so crazy after all.

https://youtu.be/P_ZGkLr-O3E

[matelot22]

That article is subscription bait. There is much more to it than the article would suggest.

We know the deal with Jones. He doesn't like the target on the back that comes with being favourites, he likes the underdog status, and he has said on a number of occasions he doesn't want the squad peaking until the right time (WC 2023) as no team can continually maintain peak performance. The RFU have also been very clear in their annual reports and public statements that the overriding priority is WC 2023. 

He's also looking for an edge, and he must, because we don't have the players and depth of SA, France, and arguably NZ.  That edge could come from versatility and squad flexibility (particularly with ongoing Covid nonsense, injuries, etc.), surprise factor (bolters, new tactics, concealed playing structures and formations, and lots of 'noise' for other teams to work through), mental toughness, peak performance timing for WC 2023, and other factors. 

The hybrid/total rugby mantra also plays very well into this strategy, as it has a short-term cost in terms of performance levels as players find feet in new positions, but long term gains with a view to WC 2023 (broader skills and generally raised ceiling for players, squad flexibility, etc.).

It all predicts under-performance between World Cups, especially mid-cycle, and that's exactly what we see with Eddie Jones' England.

Sandbagging isn't limited to F1, and there will be some amount of it going on at any one time in the Six Nations. Corporate sponsors won't allow broadsheets to labor too much on all that though. It's 'Rugby's Greatest Championship' after all, not just some sandpit for the world cup.

I do also question the shenanigans that go on sometimes, but I reckon England are generally in a good place with a view to WC 2023 personally.

You are Eddie Jones, and I claim my £5!

On a serious note, you state "because we don't have the players and depth of SA, France, and arguably NZ".

I thought we had the biggest player base in the world? It's certainly much bigger than NZ, but if you're referring specifically to players with international caps, then that is very much Eddie's problem to own as he's turned up so many chances to blood new players. Look no further than Ben bloody Youngs......

[califauna]

I thought we had the biggest player base in the world? It's certainly much bigger than NZ, but if you're referring specifically to players with international caps, then that is very much Eddie's problem to own as he's turned up so many chances to blood new players. Look no further than Ben bloody Youngs......

I mean our gun 23 specifically. I agree with our player base and resources by rights we should be better, but I think we are kinda up there. We're third favourites to win the next WC after all. NZ much smaller but as EJ put it, 'they have the best academy in the world maaate - Fiji, Samoa and Tonga'.   . France have a massive player base and SA have a lab somewhere producing genetic freaks of their own variety.

Re. Youngs I also struggle to understand the scrum-half strategy over the years. Youngs has a lot to offer for me, but as a player-coach, not a first team selection, and Robson and Care at least deserved more caps. Youngs' passing off the base of the ruck is woeful the last few years.  Perhaps it's the bolter thing again? EJ doesn't seem to value caps as highly as some others. Look at the timing of the blooding of the Kamikaze twins for example, and Ruaridh McConnochie.

If you look at the players in terms of raw ability and talent, taking into account projected improvement over next 18 months and discounting coaching, strategy and other higher level factors affecting how well they are deployed, how would you say England's best players for 2023 stack up against France, SA, and NZ? Hope to be proved wrong, but I have them marginally behind, though I would revise that if Kruis, Launchers, Lawrence, Freeman, Cokanasiga and Radwan return and pan out respectively.

[coddy]

Englands Professional player base is second in size only to South Africa's.

I agree that EJ should of been shown the door after the RFU review last April. We are now stuck with him until after next years World Cup.