Knives being sharpened?

[Marlow Nick]

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/losses-to-france-and-ireland-should-end-eddie-jones-reign/

[DGP Wasp]

Can't argue with any of that.

This stat is truly remarkable (and equally unsurprising):
"...Jones had called up 174 players of whom 73 never actually went on to win a cap."

And I'm sure we can all very much relate to this:
"Perhaps the extreme case is that of Wasps scrum half Dan Robson, whose consistent brilliance for his club never got him beyond the fringes of Jones’ England. Had the now 30-year-old replaced Ben Youngs, whose form has seen plenty of peaks and troughs, five years ago he would have 50 caps by now and potentially be a star of the international game."
(More troughs than peaks IMO!)

The final point is spot on though.  If England fail to turn this 6N around, and it's hard to see how they will, then Jones has to go immediately to give someone a decent run to the 2023 WC.  First question is do the RFU have the finances (or the balls) to pay him off and get him out?  I hope so.  Next question is do they have Gatland's number?  I can't think of anyone else better qualified to get England heading in the right direction straight away and carry that through to the WC.

[JonnyD]

This stat is truly remarkable (and equally unsurprising):
"...Jones had called up 174 players of whom 73 never actually went on to win a cap."

The Dan Robson reference is of course what we all have been saying for so long.

This quote above is extremely telling for me.
Also the fact is how many players Jones has played for 1 or 2 caps and then that’s it. To me an international cap is absolutely sacred and shouldn’t be just given away to anyone who’s available at the time and some who may be not even in the top 10 in their positions in the country because we’re playing weaker opposition.
It’s harsh to single people out directly at the pinnacle of their careers but recent games for example against USA with one cap wonders getting a game and then will never be seen again ridicules the shirt in my opinion.

[mike909]

Hard to know about the general picking/not picking aspect of Jones' England, but Dan R demonstrates the problem with dithering........ Either pick players to do what they did to attract your attention or leave them alone. It seems that Exeter's Simmonds is being pissed about currently

Purely from a management point of view, any successes I might have had with teams, came from asking people to demonstrate what they were good at - not trying to make everyone some sort of hybrid "do every thing" And Jones has in the last 15 months or so, too often has selections that don't appear to have taken on board the basics that anyone can see in the data - that England were successful, with a lightweight backline, when they had forwards able to break the gain line, beat defenders and make offloads.

What ought to get people questioning Jones is how England got  to select "beige" backlines  - Smith excepted - with no out and out pace behind packs unable to provide go forwards.

Yes - it did rely upon "Peak Billy" but his stats seemed to make a material difference to a team with no large (and regularly fit) backs but with in Watson, May and JJ, had pace. His stats for Sarries this season are exactly what England are missing - they stand out (Opta) in recent games and whilst I am by no means arguing for "select BV" what the data shows is that England do not seem to have a plan......and the coach is where the buck stops

Prob beat Ire and Fra now....though it would need the set piece to start working and for some go forwards to be generated from somewhere...

[califauna]

My prediction - Jones isn't going anywhere, even if England get thrashed by France and Ireland.

Don't see anything in that article about a non-compete clause. Does the author really think the RFU are going to make EJ a free agent, one year out from a WC with England's entire blueprint for the World Cup, mountains of inside data on players, tactics, strategy and strengths and weaknesses of the squad and other teams?

England don't have the players that SA and France and NZ have and EJ knows it. They have to find an edge somewhere.  It was always going to unconventional, especially with EJ as head coach.

Fans also need to remember that the Six Nations is just not an overriding priority for RFU or EJ.

"[The system] has got no ceiling, as your attack is completely unpredictable. But obviously it takes more time to get right and takes more cohesion and combinations. [...] We’re going to be peaking at the World Cup, we’re quite clear about that.”  Eddie Jones, Feb 2022.

"Whether or not Jones is right to frame everything so rigidly by World Cup cycles is a separate debate. His paymasters at the RFU have clearly granted him licence to do so. With that freedom, he is playing the long game with regard to England’s attacking development.  [...]. Jones’ comments suggest that he is willing to endure the short-term pain of clunky displays for the long-term gain of the cohesion required for his fluid philosophy."  Charlie Morgan, Telegraph, Feb 2022.

It might look chaotic from the outside sometimes, but I think there is method to the madness.




 

[Rossm]

England's entire blueprint for the World Cup

Blueprint?? What blueprint? Yeah really valuable to the oppo. Make 'em laugh though.

[Westy68]

I find it very difficult to understand how an experienced coach who has the pool of players that England offers, who finds it difficult to beat teams like Scotland or Wales.

His excuse is he has a bigger picture and it will be all explained at the World Cup.

England could have 2 teams in the 6 nations and both should be able to finish in the top 3.

I don’t understand that getting beat is a good thing. I except playing South African or New Zealand loses will happen.

If his building for the World Cup surely you must have your main Fundamentals in place a year from the World Cup. Getting thrashed by France and Ireland tells me you’re not sure what your fundamentals are. If we play well and win then well done EJ. No way am I putting money on England

[Andywasp50]

This is the problem though - treating the Six Nations as second to the world cup and as a kind of test and tinker competition.

With England being the only N Hemisphere side to ever win the competition and the vagaries of the tournament games, particularly the knockout stages, it's bizarre to position winning the WC as the holy grail over everything else. We need a more measured approach to strive for something more realistic and reachable. I'd prefer a grand slam and six nations title to be our focus, and off the back of that have a view on building and winning the world cup. Much like France are doing now.

[mike909]

It might look chaotic from the outside sometimes, but I think there is method to the madness.

It's not the chaos - it's the picking of teams and strategies that don't appear to take account of rugby basics. We've spend three games running into defences, who were more than happy to tackle our runners. Runners who don't get over the gain line, make passes or offloads. Even vs Italy. And behind them, Smith excepted - beige backs. I'd welcome the surprise of this being some sort of plan.....

[DGP Wasp]

Winning mentality, success breeds success, winning is a habit, or whatever other tired old cliché you want to trot out, there is definitely some truth in it.  Being crap in the 6 Nations is not the way to prepare to win a World Cup, it's just Eddie's excuse for piss poor performances year after year.  Being below par with some evidence of progress towards a longer term goal I could stomach, but there is zero evidence of progress and Eddie is simply trying to pull the wool over the eyes of the media and supporters by claiming it's all part of his grand plan for the WC.

SCW's England knew how to win a game of rugby, and to do so emphatically.  Yes, they fell at the final hurdle in pursuit of a Grand Slam a few times, but these were exceptions, put it down to pressure, expectation or whatever else, but that certainly didn't make them a bad team in anyone's eyes.  The point is they were good enough to be in that position consistently for several years, and they overcame those setbacks and were, for a time, unbeatable.

[welsh wasp]

An early comment that the RFU should have Gatland’s phone number. That opportunity was missed several years ago when Andrew was in charge of the RFU and wasn’t interested when his name was suggested, hence his successful years with Wales.
I would say this but - If Wales had been awake at the start of the match and scored a try in the last few minutes, England fans would be even more unhappy.

[westwaleswasp]

More knives sharpened here.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2022/feb/27/england-six-nations-fate-eddie-jones

[Vespula Vulgaris]

I completely agree that the idea we can ignore the 6N in order to concentrate on the WC is preposterous.

When we won the WC we were #1 in the world and coming at it on the back of a Grand Slam in the 6N, the year before we only lost by 5 points to an imperious France in Paris, and we'd won the 2 tournaments before that.

Right now we haven't even won the Calcutta Cup for the last 2 years.

[westwaleswasp]

Also, England have an unending level of top performances at u20 level. Don't tell me we are worse than France, SA etc. We have money, a quality club competition, and top performing youngsters year on year.

[welsh wasp]

I think the best word to describe Jones is arrogant. What has he achieved as the England coach?
Players picked for a squad and then never selected again. A larger group of players available than any other nation. 5 more minutes on Saturday and Wales might/would have scored a 4th try.
Now he has decided not to take questions from an experienced rugby reporter who seems to have offended him.