If the game was 65 minutes.

[Shugs]

Not in any way excusing what we saw in the last 15 mins but if we’d been commenting after 65 there would have been some really encouraging signs. Robson ran the show from 9 and looks back to form. Hougaard made some great hits on the wing. We dominated the scrum even with West off (thought Alo was tremendous). Launchbury and Stooke were immense and we really negated their maul. Back row was just tireless  and overall defence was drum tight. The signs are there that we can be top notch and we’ve got to continue to tip the balance that way - away from what we did in the final 15.

[Westy68]

I do think we have a decent team and that we are only about 2/3 players away from being a very good team.

When Alo goes off we struggle, which we not be the case next season.

I’m sorry I have a problem with Lee, I feel that a team that drops off so much in every game, is a coaching issue. I look at tigers, who have been put together in just 1 year, would never do what we have done on multiple occasions this season. Today was really bad

[Jac A]

I’m sorry I have a problem with Lee, I feel that a team that drops off so much in every game, is a coaching issue. I look at tigers, who have been put together in just 1 year, would never do what we have done on multiple occasions this season. Today was really bad

Just curious about this. I used this is the post-match thread but I'll say it again. In the 10 Premiership games before today we were behind at half-time in all bar 3 (one of which we were level) and we went on to win 7 of those games. In those 10 games we have scored 98 points in the last 25 mins and conceded only 30. There's no evidence that we 'drop off'.

There may be times in games where other teams score tries - happens to pretty much every team we aren't unique.

Today was a bad end but it was an exception. Usually we are the team scoring at the end of the game.

[Westy68]

Have you watched all season, we have even lost when we are ahead against teams with 14 even 13 players.

It’s not just the dropping off it’s the level of the drop off which is the worry, it’s been going on for 2 seasons now

[Jac A]

Have you watched all season, we have even lost when we are ahead against teams with 14 even 13 players.

I have.

In all Premiership games this season before today, in the last quarter we have scored more points than the other team in 13 of the 21 games, we have scored the same in 2 so in only 6 games have the opposition scored more points in the quarter. Of those 6 we were already behind in 4 of them and level in 1 other. As far as I can tell the home game against Quins (a team renowned for coming back and scoring late on) is the only time we have been leading and then lost. The Newcastle game (where Penny was sent off after 55 mins) we were 7 - 8 down, Connon kicked a penalty, then Willis scored on 75 mins and then Chick scored a late try to win the game for them: I'd put that down to a tight finish (we were also a man down as Gaskell had gone off injured and we didn't have another replacement) rather than a capitulation. The game where we were level is the Exeter game where we played really well for most of the game but Jonny Hill got a try out wide on 68 mins and we lost by 5 points. I haven't seen any evidence to support a statement that we drop off, let alone at a worrying level. We did today - but that was an exception.

[Westy68]

I must be watching a different wasps to you in the last 2 seasons. So let’s agree to disagree on this one

[Heathen]

Lee has to carry the can for this defeat. The old adage, if ain't broke, don't fix it applies big time.

To take off a third of the team - probably 5 of our most influential players in a 5 minute period - totally screwed us.

Dobby, Jimmy, Elliot, Tom and Gabby were all playing very well - effectively controlling the play.

In their place - Will, Paolo, Jamma, TY and Frosty. Will had an absolute mare. All he needed to do was to control. Instead he had a complete brain fart and cost us dearly. Paolo is a totally different style of player to Jimmy and got lost in the mayhem that evolved. Jamma and TY looked way off the pace and Frosty never got into the match at all.

Lee's call gave all the momentum to Irish - lock, stock and barrel.

When Jack won that turnover late on, I thought that we were safe, but what do we do? F up on our 22 when the ball should have been hoofed into the Thames.

I was was well p*ssed off at the end. Credit to Irish that they stuck at it and their replacements upped their game.

We don't deserve to be in the top 8 after yesterday.

What it does demonstrate that we need further quality additions to the squad in the form of a LH, a 9, and a 15 that can defend.

[Chunky24]

24 points up, 15 minutes to go, 6 day turnaround to a European quarter final, any other coach would have done similar, unfortunately the players bought on are not of the "see a game out" ilk and once the tide turned they didn't have the nous or experience to stop it.

[RogerE]

Agree - unfortunately Rugby has now degenerated into a 23 man team game, which requires at least 8 players to "drain the tanks" to then be replaced by the eight sitting on the bench.

All teams now make substitutions, needed or not.

Lee did what any other DoR would have done - Gatland used to do it by sending 5 players on at the same time, and we almost always saw a reversal in our fortunes for the rest of the match. However in those days we usually did not capitulate quite as much!

[Westy68]

I agree that a lot of DORs would have made changes, what I have a problem with is why all the players who came on gave the impression they didn’t need to try.

I would be trying to play out of my skin to make sure I wasn’t on the bench the following week.

Tom Willis did it a couple of weeks ago, when he came on he played out of his skin.

Will porter has played well recently but yesterday was so bad he has now undone all that good work. Next week I would be very surprised if he gets any game time, maybe 5 minutes.

It’s been said on this site already but I want to see the pride and attitude that won us trophies. I’m not interested in wasps just being a mid table team and playing in the challenge cup.

‘You shall not pass’ was the reason I love wasps so much but I’ve not seen that for years and I’m getting sick of it.

For me that comes from the top down

[Steve from Cov]

24 points up, 15 minutes to go, 6 day turnaround to a European quarter final, any other coach would have done similar, unfortunately the players bought on are not of the "see a game out" ilk and once the tide turned they didn't have the nous or experience to stop it.

+1.

[Mellie]

‘You shall not pass’ was the reason I love wasps so much but I’ve not seen that for years and I’m getting sick of it.

You saw it for 65 minutes yesterday! That was by far the best performance of the season defensively. Our attack wasn't too bad either.

Unfortunately the last 15 minutes was the worst they've played all season. It's now up to the players and management to not let that scenario happen again.

[Rossm]

24 points up, 15 minutes to go, 6 day turnaround to a European quarter final, any other coach would have done similar, unfortunately the players bought on are not of the "see a game out" ilk and once the tide turned they didn't have the nous or experience to stop it.

Absolutely correct. I was telling my screen that we should be putting some players in cotton wool with the quarter final in 6 days time. In fact, I may even have done it slightly earlier. Heathen, you'd be screaming your head off if Dobby had got crocked by playing on. Though why the bench were such a collective cluster fuck is beyond me.

I'm damned glad that Henry Arundell did not start. Terrific potential.

[mike909]

24 points up, 15 minutes to go, 6 day turnaround to a European quarter final, any other coach would have done similar, unfortunately the players bought on are not of the "see a game out" ilk and once the tide turned they didn't have the nous or experience to stop it.

Yep - I'd have done the same (taken the players off) and like Lee did, I'm sure, I'd have expected them to be dull and effective. They had every chance to get the game won - and I'd be questioning the players and indeed the experienced players still on the pitch as to what was being discussed....if anything....

[Bloke in North Dorset]

24 points up, 15 minutes to go, 6 day turnaround to a European quarter final, any other coach would have done similar, unfortunately the players bought on are not of the "see a game out" ilk and once the tide turned they didn't have the nous or experience to stop it.

Yep - I'd have done the same (taken the players off) and like Lee did, I'm sure, I'd have expected them to be dull and effective. They had every chance to get the game won - and I'd be questioning the players and indeed the experienced players still on the pitch as to what was being discussed....if anything....

And to that end Joe has to accept some responsibility. As on field captain, and club captain, he should have been getting round them and explaining exactly what's needed straight after Porter's tap and go mess up, if not before.