Pecking order?

[Raggs]

Given the depth we've shown, what now do we reckon is the pecking order? A lot of positions are quite muddy I reckon.

1. McIntyre? Harris? Mullan?

I can't call it. I think Mullan is probably 3rd choice now, but Harris has been really impressive, does he pip McIntyre? I think McI keeps it for now, due to his handling ability.

2. Taylor? Cruse?

I think Taylor takes this, but it's far from clear cut.

3. JCW? Brookes? Stuart?

Stuart probably isn't first choice, but I reckon he's pushing. Brookes is looking like a very different beast to his Saints days, he's really dominating scrums, which is huge from a tighthead. JCW probably carries a bit more, and handles too, but it's a big call to separate them.

4. Launchbury.

5 Rowlands? Gaskell?

This I think is a bit horses for courses. Rain? Forwards team? Lineout options in the backrow? Rowlands. Need more lineout options, better handling and mobility, Gaskell.

6. Willis? Shields? Carr?

I know Wilis has been injured, but no one can deny his ability last season. Shields is still settling, but is a very good player. Carr give us a real attacking option.

7. Young? Willis? Carr?

Probably Young to be honest, but if everyone's fit? Again, maybe horses for courses.

8. Hughes? Carr?

OK, Hughes playing like he did against Sarries, I think he's in the shirt, but I'd not be devastated with Carr.

Honourable mentions for Reider and Willis Jr.

9. Robson. 21 Hampson? Simpson?

I think Dai may well not bother fighting hard to keep Simpson, with Hampson going so well, and Porter look very comfortable too, neither would I to be honest.

10. Sops.

The more time he has, the better he looks in my mind.

11/14 Daly? Bassett? Neal? Campagnaro?

This begins to show my opinion of Daly. I don't think he's good enough to be our 13 to be honest, which seems odd.

12. MLB? Gopperth?

The longer MLB plays in the shirt, the better he looks. Gopperth offers a bit more control, but MLB more in attack I feel. Probably prefer Gopps defence though.

13. JdJ? Campagnaro? Daly?

Campagnaro is new, but there's no denying his ability at 13. JdJ is the man for me, his defence offers us so much, he's also far from a crowbar in attack. Daly has the pace, but I think wing is suiting him more these days to be honest.

15. WLR

It's clear for me he's the best option we have there.

[NellyWellyWaspy]

What we really want though. This shows the increasing depth.

[coddy]

Well if we are counting long term injured as fit and playing as well as they did pre injury then I'd go with this.

1 Mullan
2 Taylor
3 JCW
4 Lury
5 Haskell
6 Shields
7 Young
8 Hughes
9 Robson
10 Lima
11 Daly
12 Gopperth
13 De King
14 Bassett
15 APR

16 McIntyre
17 Johnson
18 Brookes
19 Rowlands
20 Nemo
21 Simpson
22 Searle
23 Campagnaro

[bargepole]

10. Sops.

The more time he has, the better he looks in my mind.

I'm afraid I can't agree. Sure, he defends well, and having a 10 who can jackal over a tackled opponent and win turnovers is a bonus.

But in attack, he looks very ordinary indeed. He takes the ball too far behind the gain line, and usually just shovels it on to the next player, so we struggle to make, let alone break, the gain line. His kicking from the tee is OK, but his kicking from hand is of variable quality, as is his ability to execute long cut-out passes, unlike an unmentionable person now in a cherry and white shirt.

If the All Blacks once considered him to be the next best option after Beauden Barrett, they must have a dearth of quality 10s in NZ.

[Neils]

Haskell?

[Rossm]

Nice to see you back with us Raggs. Hope all is well with you and yours.

Where's Ashley?? Neither mentioned as a hooker nor back row.

[Vespula Vulgaris]

10. Sops.

The more time he has, the better he looks in my mind.

I'm afraid I can't agree. Sure, he defends well, and having a 10 who can jackal over a tackled opponent and win turnovers is a bonus.

But in attack, he looks very ordinary indeed. He takes the ball too far behind the gain line, and usually just shovels it on to the next player, so we struggle to make, let alone break, the gain line. His kicking from the tee is OK, but his kicking from hand is of variable quality, as is his ability to execute long cut-out passes, unlike an unmentionable person now in a cherry and white shirt.

If the All Blacks once considered him to be the next best option after Beauden Barrett, they must have a dearth of quality 10s in NZ.

This genuinely surprises me and makes me wonder if we've been watching different people.

I see a ling and detailed article in the offing now.  I'm off to make some gifs...

[Raggs]

Nice to see you back with us Raggs. Hope all is well with you and yours.

Where's Ashley?? Neither mentioned as a hooker nor back row.

All is good. Life is a little different and we're still settling into routine. Now I've started playing again I'm not watching as many games live, and less time to watch them 2nd times (should get a bit more time, if I fancy using it for that, in the future).

I've not listed the entire squad, and I don't consider Ash to be 1st choice (or in the reckoning) for any position, so he's not there. He's a fantastic squadman to have though.

[wasps]

It's strange, in the Bristol and Saracens games, I was seeing Sopoaga regularly taking the ball close to the gain line, and also drawing his man before sending late passes.

There were couple of occasions against Saracens where the whole back line stood deeper, and we appeared to try to run a training ground move.

But on the whole, I've felt that he's starting to play quite flat

[wasps]

Was McIntyre ahead of Mullan last season?
I can't recall now, but I thought that MM's leadership and all round work rate saw him still picked as first choice.... Albeit that I would have been starting chesty personally.


It's hard to say who is first choice now. I think we need to see everyone play after their injuries.
I still haven't decided how good ZuZu is

[Vespula Vulgaris]

There was a lot of debate about who was best.  Chesty seemed to be mroe powerful, but Mullan was supposedly more technical.  I'd be hesitant to rule Mullan out of first choice without seeing how he does when he comes back.  He's played internationally and not let anyone down so he deserves that at least.

[BG]

There was a lot of debate about who was best.  Chesty seemed to be mroe powerful, but Mullan was supposedly more technical.  I'd be hesitant to rule Mullan out of first choice without seeing how he does when he comes back.  He's played internationally and not let anyone down so he deserves that at least.

Placing Mullan as 1st choice LH is a leap of faith given its been ages since he last played (how long ago was it??) and even when he did last season, some would argue that Si Mc probably held that berth. In terms of scrummaging they are probbly equal but i think chesty offers more in terms of carrying and offloading ability. Ben Harris has also come on leaps and bounds and has scummaged well and is a good ball carrier. Mullan will be 32 at the end of this season when I presume his contract is up. Will Dai renew it?

In terms of the backrow, when our injuries come back we are blessed but at the moment YY has to be 7, he offers something that only Jack Willis seems to be able to do, which is reading the game at rucks and snaffling the ball (without that ability teams seem to be able to go through phase after phase against us). Shields seems to be settling in and might become one of those team unsung heros doing all the dirty hard graft . I'm torn between Nemo and Hughes at 8. They are completely different players. Nemo is quick and finds and steps through gaps and offoads, Hughes is a big lump who ties in defenders. In my view though Hughes hasn't stepped on as a player and that he hasn't added to his game in the way the 2 Vunipola brothers have in improving his handling and offloading ability.

We played some of our best rugby last season with Carr at 8, so controversially, I'll give him the nod there.

In terms of backs, you might as well write names on a pieces of paper and pick them out of a top hat as no-one really is head and shoulders better than anyone else this season (apart from Bertie possibly)

[Brandnewtorugby]

As mentioned, we don't know for sure until we see Matt play again. I remember watching him run three lengths of the pitch attending a ruck at each end but still manage to be on Wades shoulder supporting his run for a try, there cannot be many props (anywhere) that can do that, I guess we will see if he still can.

If there is something I noticed about Leinster when we played there, it was how effectively they supported breaks, either giving an option or blocking (legally) a chase.

[Raggs]

Mullan definitely has the pace and workrate, but with a backrow of Willis, Young, Nemo and Launch/Gaskell, with Taylor/Cruse, do we need another prop doing that?

I've not analysed enough, but Harris strikes me as extremely mobile too, and solid in the scrum too, whilst offering a bit of a better carrying option.

[Vespula Vulgaris]

Mullan definitely has the pace and workrate, but with a backrow of Willis, Young, Nemo and Launch/Gaskell, with Taylor/Cruse, do we need another prop doing that?

Not if it is to the detrement of his scrummaging, but historically that has not been the case, so why not?

I've not analysed enough, but Harris strikes me as extremely mobile too, and solid in the scrum too, whilst offering a bit of a better carrying option.

He hasn't set the world on fire, but he hasn't let anyone down either which is quite impressive at the top end of the GP.