More players for Eddie to Break

[Raggs]

Ok - I'll withdraw - my main issue is with pissing about at the end of an endless season with knackered players. Dan and others aren't  going to the RWC, why not select some U-20's players if we're looking at the  future?

Completely agree Mike. It’s basically an excuse for thousands of people to get hammered at Twickenham. Meaningless and annoying.

How annoying for those getting to wear the England shirt. And those getting to wear the Baabaa's shirt. And those 10s of thousands of people getting drunk and having fun. And the others enjoying another bit of rugby on the tele. And the millions earned from the fixture going into grass roots.

[Shugs]

“Those getting to wear the England shirt”. That sums it up perfectly. Almost mascot like. These are professional sportsmen not kids being rewarded with a phoney day out. I’m absolutely sure the likes of Robson, Alo etc are absolutely chuffed to bits to be picked. That doesn’t mean there is any rugby benefit at all in it. I’m equally as sure thousands at Twickenham will have a great time - some might even watch some of the game. Again, that doesn’t make it of any benefit to anyone. For players who have had a slog of a season another training camp and game is precisely the last thing they need. But while it’s all about cash that will never be a consideration.

[hopwood]

“Those getting to wear the England shirt”. That sums it up perfectly. Almost mascot like. These are professional sportsmen not kids being rewarded with a phoney day out. I’m absolutely sure the likes of Robson, Alo etc are absolutely chuffed to bits to be picked. That doesn’t mean there is any rugby benefit at all in it. I’m equally as sure thousands at Twickenham will have a great time - some might even watch some of the game. Again, that doesn’t make it of any benefit to anyone. For players who have had a slog of a season another training camp and game is precisely the last thing they need. But while it’s all about cash that will never be a consideration.

Shugs….you’re getting rather outraged on behalf of other people, people who’s minds you don’t know.
Very Twitterish!! 

[mike909]

I’m very fervently in the option 1 camp. Don’t bother. Don’t bother with the meaningless training camp. Don’t bother with the Barbarians game. Don’t bother adding further workload onto already over used players. Don’t bother messing about with the heads of people that you’ve already discarded. Robson is the classic example. Messed about by Jones ad infinitum. He knows he’s not on the plane to Aus. He knows he’s not in the 6N squad and he knows he won’t be in the RWC squad. So what does this end of season debacle add for him or England?

G'day Shugs - that sets out what I was trying to say rather more clearly. England have under 12 months - in reality to the 6Ns, to decide on a RWC squad. This game is unlikely to do anything to advance that. My opinion is that there are those like Dan who've been pissed about - but will feel they have to go, and those who are extremely late to be a late runner for the RWC.  Jones either has a really good idea of the players and system already or we're in deep doo doo's. And the tour to Aus is extremely important for him and mainly players who are not available for this session. And who really needs another session now?

[Neils]

I’m very fervently in the option 1 camp. Don’t bother. Don’t bother with the meaningless training camp. Don’t bother with the Barbarians game. Don’t bother adding further workload onto already over used players. Don’t bother messing about with the heads of people that you’ve already discarded. Robson is the classic example. Messed about by Jones ad infinitum. He knows he’s not on the plane to Aus. He knows he’s not in the 6N squad and he knows he won’t be in the RWC squad. So what does this end of season debacle add for him or England?

G'day Shugs - that sets out what I was trying to say rather more clearly. England have under 12 months - in reality to the 6Ns, to decide on a RWC squad. This game is unlikely to do anything to advance that. My opinion is that there are those like Dan who've been pissed about - but will feel they have to go, and those who are extremely late to be a late runner for the RWC.  Jones either has a really good idea of the players and system already or we're in deep doo doo's. And the tour to Aus is extremely important for him and mainly players who are not available for this session. And who really needs another session now?

Suggest - Deep doo doos

[Raggs]

“Those getting to wear the England shirt”. That sums it up perfectly. Almost mascot like. These are professional sportsmen not kids being rewarded with a phoney day out. I’m absolutely sure the likes of Robson, Alo etc are absolutely chuffed to bits to be picked. That doesn’t mean there is any rugby benefit at all in it. I’m equally as sure thousands at Twickenham will have a great time - some might even watch some of the game. Again, that doesn’t make it of any benefit to anyone. For players who have had a slog of a season another training camp and game is precisely the last thing they need. But while it’s all about cash that will never be a consideration.

So the players are happy. The fans are happy. The money earned keeps people like me able to play rugby and coach more kids, and therefore keeps them happy.

We've got arguments that these are players that won't make the RWC team (and are happy to be playing), playing 1 extra fixture, and perhaps getting to wear the England shirt in the only time in their lives.

We've got arguments that these are some players that may make the rwc team (and are happy to playing), and have a chance to continue their training that they'll be doing ready for Aus anyway, so will likely be happy to improve their England game.

And there's no benefit? We have very different definitions of benefit.

[Mellie]

“Those getting to wear the England shirt”. That sums it up perfectly. Almost mascot like. These are professional sportsmen not kids being rewarded with a phoney day out. I’m absolutely sure the likes of Robson, Alo etc are absolutely chuffed to bits to be picked. That doesn’t mean there is any rugby benefit at all in it. I’m equally as sure thousands at Twickenham will have a great time - some might even watch some of the game. Again, that doesn’t make it of any benefit to anyone. For players who have had a slog of a season another training camp and game is precisely the last thing they need. But while it’s all about cash that will never be a consideration.

So the players are happy. The fans are happy. The money earned keeps people like me able to play rugby and coach more kids, and therefore keeps them happy.

We've got arguments that these are players that won't make the RWC team (and are happy to be playing), playing 1 extra fixture, and perhaps getting to wear the England shirt in the only time in their lives.

We've got arguments that these are some players that may make the rwc team (and are happy to playing), and have a chance to continue their training that they'll be doing ready for Aus anyway, so will likely be happy to improve their England game.

And there's no benefit? We have very different definitions of benefit.

Raggs, as this is effectively a social media site you will get people who are outraged and have prejudicial views that won't shift whatever the argument!

It makes me laugh that the Drunken Wasps site refer to this as the glee club given the amount negativity I read here.

A good example of someone coming from nowhere in a World Cup year is Josh Lewsey. He was called up for the 2003 6 nations because there was no one left standing at fullback, having had no chance of being picked for years. He played brilliantly and then not only made the trip but played in and won the final.

That's why any chance to work with potential backup players is worth it. It might just throw up an unexpected gem. But that's my view and I don't expect anyone with a contrary opinion to change their mind.

[Shugs]

To reply to that (assuming a differing opinion is allowed) it’s not about negativity at all. It’s frustration that we aren’t looking after the game when we have the chance.

[Shugs]

“Those getting to wear the England shirt”. That sums it up perfectly. Almost mascot like. These are professional sportsmen not kids being rewarded with a phoney day out. I’m absolutely sure the likes of Robson, Alo etc are absolutely chuffed to bits to be picked. That doesn’t mean there is any rugby benefit at all in it. I’m equally as sure thousands at Twickenham will have a great time - some might even watch some of the game. Again, that doesn’t make it of any benefit to anyone. For players who have had a slog of a season another training camp and game is precisely the last thing they need. But while it’s all about cash that will never be a consideration.

Shugs….you’re getting rather outraged on behalf of other people, people who’s minds you don’t know.
Very Twitterish!! 

No sir. I am outraged on behalf of myself - although mildly peeved does it more justice! As I pointed out I’m sure our call ups are delighted to be there. That doesn’t mean the whole thing is any use to anyone.

[Egret]

“Those getting to wear the England shirt”. That sums it up perfectly. Almost mascot like. These are professional sportsmen not kids being rewarded with a phoney day out. I’m absolutely sure the likes of Robson, Alo etc are absolutely chuffed to bits to be picked. That doesn’t mean there is any rugby benefit at all in it. I’m equally as sure thousands at Twickenham will have a great time - some might even watch some of the game. Again, that doesn’t make it of any benefit to anyone. For players who have had a slog of a season another training camp and game is precisely the last thing they need. But while it’s all about cash that will never be a consideration.

So the players are happy. The fans are happy. The money earned keeps people like me able to play rugby and coach more kids, and therefore keeps them happy.

We've got arguments that these are players that won't make the RWC team (and are happy to be playing), playing 1 extra fixture, and perhaps getting to wear the England shirt in the only time in their lives.

We've got arguments that these are some players that may make the rwc team (and are happy to playing), and have a chance to continue their training that they'll be doing ready for Aus anyway, so will likely be happy to improve their England game.

And there's no benefit? We have very different definitions of benefit.

Raggs, as this is effectively a social media site you will get people who are outraged and have prejudicial views that won't shift whatever the argument!

It makes me laugh that the Drunken Wasps site refer to this as the glee club given the amount negativity I read here.

A good example of someone coming from nowhere in a World Cup year is Josh Lewsey. He was called up for the 2003 6 nations because there was no one left standing at fullback, having had no chance of being picked for years. He played brilliantly and then not only made the trip but played in and won the final.

That's why any chance to work with potential backup players is worth it. It might just throw up an unexpected gem. But that's my view and I don't expect anyone with a contrary opinion to change their mind.

+1 to Raggs and Nellie

[Hymenoptera]

“Those getting to wear the England shirt”. That sums it up perfectly. Almost mascot like. These are professional sportsmen not kids being rewarded with a phoney day out. I’m absolutely sure the likes of Robson, Alo etc are absolutely chuffed to bits to be picked. That doesn’t mean there is any rugby benefit at all in it. I’m equally as sure thousands at Twickenham will have a great time - some might even watch some of the game. Again, that doesn’t make it of any benefit to anyone. For players who have had a slog of a season another training camp and game is precisely the last thing they need. But while it’s all about cash that will never be a consideration.

So the players are happy. The fans are happy. The money earned keeps people like me able to play rugby and coach more kids, and therefore keeps them happy.

We've got arguments that these are players that won't make the RWC team (and are happy to be playing), playing 1 extra fixture, and perhaps getting to wear the England shirt in the only time in their lives.

We've got arguments that these are some players that may make the rwc team (and are happy to playing), and have a chance to continue their training that they'll be doing ready for Aus anyway, so will likely be happy to improve their England game.

And there's no benefit? We have very different definitions of benefit.

Raggs, as this is effectively a social media site you will get people who are outraged and have prejudicial views that won't shift whatever the argument!

It makes me laugh that the Drunken Wasps site refer to this as the glee club given the amount negativity I read here.

A good example of someone coming from nowhere in a World Cup year is Josh Lewsey. He was called up for the 2003 6 nations because there was no one left standing at fullback, having had no chance of being picked for years. He played brilliantly and then not only made the trip but played in and won the final.

That's why any chance to work with potential backup players is worth it. It might just throw up an unexpected gem. But that's my view and I don't expect anyone with a contrary opinion to change their mind.

Odd how debate, point of view and opinion is always seen by some as negativity. Many on this board hide behind sarcasm because they have nothing else to offer, which for me is a greater form of negativity.

[hopwood]

Absolutely agree.
It’s really healthy to debate…and posters should enjoy hearing each other’s points of view.
And I encourage more posters to get involved.

I worry that our society is moving away from healthy, respectful debate and moving towards the simple act of expressing displeasure and outrage at things they don’t agree with.

I would also love to see more (maybe introverted) people having a go at sharing their ideas.
Many moons ago, I used just read message boards and forums without having the courage to post my own thoughts.
And I think it’s really good skill to acquire and helps build social and communication skills.
I highly encourage readers on here to become posters too.
Nobody is going to bite….and any differences of opinion are just a healthy part of life.


And finally….Shugs, I may not agree with some of your thoughts on the training camp…but I definitely agree wholeheartedly with the overall point you make about too much rugby being played each year.
But that’s not really in the hands of Eddie Jones or the players he selects.

[Raggs]

To reply to that (assuming a differing opinion is allowed) it’s not about negativity at all. It’s frustration that we aren’t looking after the game when we have the chance.

Looking after which game? The players involved are either getting 1 extra game at the end of the season (those involved in any sort of playoff position have the same situation). Those players will have more stress placed on them. But the income from this match, will absolutely go a long way looking after the game, a lot further than not having this game.

[Shugs]

Hopwood - agreed - I’m not laying it at the door of Jones or the players. And completely agree with the wider premise of your post.
Raggs - we’re not going to agree on the merits of this. If some cash does filter down the chain that’s a positive.

[Bloke in North Dorset]

Absolutely agree.
It’s really healthy to debate…

Exactly. I go out of my way to read people who I know I’m likely to disagree with as long as I know they make thoughtful arguments in a polite, well written, way.  (And that’s all subjects, not just rugby).