Always a Wasp

Author Topic: Worcester  (Read 25742 times)

DGP Wasp

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Re: Worcester
« Reply #165 on: September 27, 2022, 09:38:31 AM »
Any news from PRL/RFU about whether they're automatically relegated? Hopefully not of course but who knows what those blazers will do!

Presumably that'll have to be cleared up before anyone would agree to buy the club...

I have seen it reported somewhere that the RFU/PRL may favour a 35 point deduction rather than automatic relegation following administration.  Much depends on how the coming days and weeks play out for both Worcester and Wasps, but that would potentially allow both to remain in the Premiership with no relegation planned for this season and for the Championship winners to come up as planned to give us a 14 team league.

Then we would find out how many other clubs are equally deep in the mire.  A 35 point deduction in a season with no relegation will do no more than prevent those teams from realistically competing for top 4 (if it's to be top 8 for Europe again, then even that would not be beyond the realms of possibility), so hypothetically, with such a precedent in place, other clubs may see it as an opportune moment to do the same.

NellyWellyWaspy

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Re: Worcester
« Reply #166 on: September 27, 2022, 09:44:06 AM »
Any news from PRL/RFU about whether they're automatically relegated? Hopefully not of course but who knows what those blazers will do!

Presumably that'll have to be cleared up before anyone would agree to buy the club...

If they are to be relegated, that will kill any deal. I imagine that was missing from the 'suspended' notice deliberately. I suspect they will not be relegated, but will have a points 'fine'.

Which, though the PRL will not like it, leaves other clubs some wriggle room for this year, buit I do not think the 'Covid' defence will last past this season. Use the card now, or lose it.

Heathen

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Re: Worcester
« Reply #167 on: September 27, 2022, 09:48:42 AM »
So will Gloucester get 5 points this weekend

That is a thorny subject. It has to be equitable for all clubs in the Premiership. In the best case scenario, they should play all their games.

However, I do not want to see another fudge as was the case with covid affected matches.

One option could be is that their results are declared null and void and games against Worcester, if the opposition want to play should be friendly matches with no points awarded.

DGP Wasp

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Re: Worcester
« Reply #168 on: September 27, 2022, 09:59:30 AM »
No need to rush the decision over what to do about games already played or not played in the coming weeks.  If, as we all fervently hope, Worcester can come out of this with new ownership in a way that allows them to return to the fray, then a solution should be sought that allows them to complete the season and compete in the league with the rest of us.  I would like to think there is sufficient goodwill among the other clubs that they would be prepared to forego a rest week later in the season to fit them in during international breaks or the latter stages of European competition if teams are eliminated.

baldpaul101

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Re: Worcester
« Reply #169 on: September 27, 2022, 11:04:03 AM »
One wonders what happened to the deal that was allegedly close to being done last week?
Or the deal being put together by the Jim O'Toole that he said could only be done once the club was in administration?

I assume the suspension from the league without defining detailed sanctions is being done to allow a re-admission quickly should a take over be arranged quickly.

DGP Wasp

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Re: Worcester
« Reply #170 on: September 27, 2022, 01:45:41 PM »
O'Toole offer seemingly stumbling over ownership of surrounding land.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/63045806

Heathen

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Re: Worcester
« Reply #171 on: September 27, 2022, 02:28:28 PM »
O'Toole offer seemingly stumbling over ownership of surrounding land.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/63045806

Probably did that move as soon as they took over the club. They have history.

NellyWellyWaspy

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Re: Worcester
« Reply #172 on: September 27, 2022, 03:33:36 PM »
Yes, true. Apparently, when they bought the club, they actually bought it separated up in to parcels. This is not uncommon, whilst being dodgy in the extreme. O'Toole would have to negotiate to buy their bits first, then the club, leaving very little going to the administrator. It will not be a going concern otherwise.

That being the case, I cannot see O'Toole doing the deal required, and the current owners are sitting pretty with the major assets, possibly relatively debt free. They will simply sit back and wait for it to go completely down the pan, buy the stadium at a knockdown price, knock it down, and build a trading estate, handy as it is with parking and direct access to the M5.

As for the club, the players, the staff and the fans, I am sorry, but the current owners have well and truly shafted them. They may yet end up in court, but such action is very tricky to prove a case over.

Rossm

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Re: Worcester
« Reply #173 on: October 05, 2022, 12:06:29 PM »
Article from today's Daily Telegraph (1051hrs. 5.10.22)

Worcester Warriors to be relegated after 22-second court hearing

Worcester Warriors are on the brink of being thrown out of the Premiership after their joint administrator admitted a takeover was “unlikely” to be concluded in the coming days.

Julie Palmer, of Begbies Traynor, told Telegraph Sport that the club’s suspension from playing will be made permanent by Premiership Rugby Limited (PRL) by the end of next week, sparking an exodus of players and staff.

The news came as players and staff lost their jobs on Wednesday, as the company that pays them, Worcester Players Ltd, was liquidated at the High Court.

A statement read: "Players and staff at Worcester Warriors are to see their contracts terminated, as a key part of the club has just been wound up at the High Court. This morning HMRC has been pursuing the club for unpaid taxes, following a winding up petition back in August.

"Judge Briggs has just instructed that WRFC Players Limited – through which players and staff are contracted and paid – is wound up. All debts remain outstanding. A winding up petition against WRFC Trading Limited – which remains in administration – has been suspended.

"The club had no representation in court."

Takeover talks for Worcester Trading Ltd will continue but Palmer conceded any transaction was “sufficiently complex” to prevent a deal being struck in time for the club to retake the field for their Premiership Rugby Cup fixture against Exeter Chiefs on October 19 and their Premiership game at Bristol three days later.

She said: “The PRL, I think, want clarity in the next couple of weeks and I think it’s a sufficiently complex transaction, plus the added complication of Players going into liquidation today. I think that makes it unlikely, I would say, at the moment.

“But, on the positive side, I think there’s a sense of a model then to be built with a bit more time to look at it and if we are planning on relegation to the Championship next season then that’s probably a much lower funding ask in the first instance.”

That may be true but would also mean there would be no competitive rugby at Sixways for almost a year, forcing players and staff to find new jobs.

Even were a takeover to be completed in time for Worcester to see out the season, Palmer expected the Rugby Football Union to relegate them anyway at the end of the campaign.

Palmer had lobbied the RFU not to impose the sanction designed to punish clubs that enter administration, asking them to invoke a no-fault clause covering insolvencies triggered by the coronavirus crisis.

“We put in our appeal, as we were required to, within 24 hours,” she said.

“The RFU’s response to that appears to be – but not fully confirmed – that we’re on very thin ground in terms of that appeal.”

Worcester’s expulsion from the Premiership will trigger a fresh row over what happens to their lucrative P share, worth £9million.

That share entitles them to a percentage of top-flight revenues, including television money, even if they are in the Championship but their rivals could now seek to strip them of it, with one senior Premiership club official describing the scenario as a "lawyer's dream ticket."

There is uncertainty surrounding the final destination of Worcester's P share. Work is currently taking place behind the scenes to determine whether a clause in the Premiership regulations would allow Worcester's P share to be redistributed to PRL for free because the club has fallen into administration. If this were deemed to be legally unviable, then Worcester's administrators would be in charge of the sale of the P share, with any funds accrued put towards the paying off of the club's debt.

Players and supporters began a social media campaign for Worcester to be allowed to keep the P share, using the slogan ‘Don’t take the P’.
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Neils

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Re: Worcester
« Reply #174 on: October 05, 2022, 12:19:21 PM »
Worcester Warriors: WRFC Players Ltd wound up in High Court - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/63142239
Let me tell you something cucumber

NellyWellyWaspy

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Re: Worcester
« Reply #175 on: October 05, 2022, 04:01:02 PM »
As I said in this and the Wasps-related thread, the judges have little sympathy when cases like this come before them. Papers opened, stamp, closed. Thus ends a proud history.

I feel so very sad for the staff, players and fans.

Begbies are a very good Insolvency Practitioner firm, and will no doubt be on the case of the directors.

Westy68

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Re: Worcester
« Reply #176 on: October 05, 2022, 04:17:45 PM »
I believe it only took 22 seconds for the judge to stamp it off

MarleyWasp

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Re: Worcester
« Reply #177 on: October 05, 2022, 04:24:53 PM »
I believe it only took 22 seconds for the judge to stamp it off

Doesn't shock me. I represented someone at a bankruptcy hearing once when I was a legal aid caseworker. They had 50 cases listed and I was the only representative of a Defendant there. They did my case first, which got adjourned, but the remaining 49 went through and the barrister representing the Applicants in all 50 cases was at the station 10 minutes after me.

NellyWellyWaspy

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Re: Worcester
« Reply #178 on: October 05, 2022, 04:26:08 PM »
I have been in Court when these petitions are presented. They are placed in two piles. Defendant represented, or not. There could be a thousand in the not represented pile.

The judge simply declares the whole lot of 'not defended' done in one go, in Chambers (doesn't even walk in to the Court itself). Then moves on to the very few that are defended. And the defendants are given very short shrift for letting it get this far. Often also done in Chambers (the judge's own office).

It goes 'Do you owe them money?' ... 'Yes?' ... 'How much do you claim you owe them?' 'Is there a Court judgement to support your claim to the lower amount?' ... 'Have you paid that amount in full? ... 'No?' ... Judgement awarded.

It is a brutal process.

Rossm

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Re: Worcester
« Reply #179 on: October 06, 2022, 08:30:54 AM »
In The Guardian.

Worcester Warriors: the inside story of a rugby club’s demise


https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/oct/05/worcester-warriors-the-inside-story-of-a-rugby-clubs-demise

Reading this, I am so happy I never wanted to be a 'business man'. The convoluted devious minds these people have :o :o :o
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