How sustainable are we??

[Shugs]

Yes, it’s typical sensationalist journalism that’s skewed to their current anti Wasps narrative. He even checked if the council were the re-financiers of the bond which either shows he has zero financial knowledge or was once again merely trying to curry favour with CCFC fans. It’s not even particularly subtle. The irony is he was all the names under the sun when he wrote something against CCFC.

[SBSam]

Isn’t that just normal media sensationalism? But if you want to take it that Gilbert is biased, fair enough. He has also been accused of being anti Sisu and pro council.

[Shugs]

That’s my point really - it’s just pretty poor journalism that is light on anything new and skewed to garner cheap support.

[wasps]

Bias against Wasps may be the wrong terminology.


It feels like it's more a case of needing click bait type articles to resonate with the target audience.


No one will read an article that says "there's problems, but something we don't know about is happening to try to get everything under control".
There's no sensationalism in that




It's the desire for views that explains why both sides of this feel that he's been against them at various times

[SBSam]

That’s my point really - it’s just pretty poor journalism that is light on anything new and skewed to garner cheap support.

The bondholders “organising themselves was new to the media, and the rest around the bonds is context. They have reached over the 10% needed to call an EGM via the trustee, and that’s from the very small number of visible bondholders. The quote from one is representative of some but the majority seem prepared to give a short period of time given a lack of trust. If the refinance comes off, all will be good, but if it doesn’t I think their patience will have been exhausted.

[Shugs]

I noticed he’d put himself on the bond forum. As new news goes bondholders getting organised is about as groundbreaking as the earth being round.

[SBSam]

I noticed he’d put himself on the bond forum. As new news goes bondholders getting organised is about as groundbreaking as the earth being round.

I said it was new to the media. And actually, it’s taken them a long time to organise themselves - as they have realised that their brokers are not actually doing much for the fees they receive.

[Vespula Vulgaris]

You are mistaken in thinking the bondholders have organised themselves in order to be able to act. The organisers of the online groups have managed to identify the holders of just over 10% of the bonds. There is at present no agreement to act together, or even an agreement of the direction in which to act.

So in fact what has happened is that a number of bond holders have spoken to each other. Which is not quite the headline grabbing bollocks that is being spouted.

I'd be very interested to find out if the anonymous bondholder quoted actually proved his holdings, and what level they are.

[SteveTodd]

You are mistaken in thinking the bondholders have organised themselves in order to be able to act. The organisers of the online groups have managed to identify the holders of just over 10% of the bonds. There is at present no agreement to act together, or even an agreement of the direction in which to act.

So in fact what has happened is that a number of bond holders have spoken to each other. Which is not quite the headline grabbing bollocks that is being spouted.

I'd be very interested to find out if the anonymous bondholder quoted actually proved his holdings, and what level they are.

You are correct, there is no agreement to act together, so far it has only been limited to simply identifying bondholders and the amount that they hold (some have not stated what their holding is), for those that have  it amounts to over 10% (we have been asked to keep the details private, so I do not want to say any more than that). The list has come about due to frustration over lack of detail in communications from Wasps.

I have not been asked to prove what my holding is yet, although I could easily do so if asked.

If Wasps provided more detail it would certainly calm things down, perhaps something as simple as a projected timescale of the refinancing process would help, but I accept that I have no experience in these matters, so I do not have a 'feel' for what Wasps are free to disclose or not during their negotiations with potential financiers. I am not as optimistic as one might anticipate after an announcement stating that an offer for refinancing has been received. I have no malice towards Wasps, when I first invested in the bond I knew very little about rugby at club level, and I still don't, but naturally after investing I took an interest in Wasps (which was why I joined this forum) and I started following their results every weekend, and began to look forward to doing so. It might be pushing it to call me a fan, but I definitely want to see Wasps come out of this unscathed.

All the communication that I have had with other bond holders has taken place on this public forum https://uk.advfn.com/stock-market/london/wasps-22-WAS1/share-chat
So you can see for yourself what has been said, and there is also a Facebook group too (which I have not joined).

[SBSam]

My post was entirely accurate. As I said, The bondholders have organised themselves so they can act, they have enough nominal value to take some action, they haven’t decided to take any action yet, they are prepared to give Wasps limited time to reveal the refinancing.

If Steve hasn’t provided evidence of his bond holding to the Trustee, then his name and contact details won’t/ shouldn’t have been on the list shared with those who have provided both proof and permission to the Trustee. He won’t/shouldn’t be part of the 10% plus and hence won’t be party to any discussions they may be having between them. What Steve hasn’t said is whether he hopes Wasps come through this unscathed having had his investment returned, which I am sure all bondholders would be hopeful of.

[SteveTodd]

I am very hopeful that I get all my investment returned, but bear in mind that I only paid an average price of just under 60p (not  the full 100p), of course it would be great to be paid the full 100 pence, and my hopes of that have increased since the last Wasps announcement, but I am trying to be realistic, at the moment I am hoping for something between 60 and 100p. I would rather prepare myself for something lower than 100p and be happy at the end, than be over optimistic and end up disappointed.

[SBSam]

If the refinance come to fruition, you will get full nominal value so you will have done pretty well in terms of roi.

[SteveTodd]

If the refinance come to fruition, you will get full nominal value so you will have done pretty well in terms of roi.

I think that there are quite a few investors in the same position, and capital gains on individual bonds are tax free.

[Shugs]

Exactly right. Which is a very good reason that any in that position will probably be willing to hang on a little longer rather than enter what could be a protracted process that yields less in the end anyway.

[SteveTodd]

Exactly right. Which is a very good reason that any in that position will probably be willing to hang on a little longer rather than enter what could be a protracted process that yields less in the end anyway.

Not only that but all investors who bought cheaply are getting a higher interest rate while they are waiting (my current rate is almost 11%), so I've no problem with waiting.

But as I said above, I would like to see Wasps get out of this, not just in the immediate future, but also in the long run. But it looks like the business model (for the league not just Wasps) has to change somehow to make it much more sustainable. I have no idea how that would happen though, because the changes appear to need to be quite significant.