Always a Wasp

Author Topic: Wasps facing relegation  (Read 66884 times)

Bloke in North Dorset

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Re: Wasps facing relegation
« Reply #330 on: October 10, 2022, 10:19:36 PM »
I know little about Mike Ashley but that little bit I've heard hasn't been too good at all.   I hope we avoid him.
Ashley was hated because he wouldn’t spend vast fortunes on transfers in a league where spending vast fortunes is the only way to get fans on side.  Even then, if that doesn’t bring instant and constant success you’re labelled a failure. 

Not saying he’d be good for us, just pointing out it’s a different world.

wasps

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Re: Wasps facing relegation
« Reply #331 on: October 10, 2022, 10:22:47 PM »
I know little about Mike Ashley but that little bit I've heard hasn't been too good at all.   I hope we avoid him.
Ashley was hated because he wouldn’t spend vast fortunes on transfers in a league where spending vast fortunes is the only way to get fans on side.  Even then, if that doesn’t bring instant and constant success you’re labelled a failure. 

Not saying he’d be good for us, just pointing out it’s a different world.


That's what I was about to say
Newcastle fans main complaint was lack of investment in the squad.


In rugby we've got a salary cap of about £5m and no transfer fees
In premiership football, £5m is essentially 1 players salary


So, assuming he'd spend up to the cap each year, there couldn't be complaints about lack of investment

WonkyWasp

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Re: Wasps facing relegation
« Reply #332 on: October 10, 2022, 10:30:07 PM »
Thanks for that explanation; I see what you both mean. We  will have to rely on other people's judgement and reading of his character.

ColonelWasp

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Re: Wasps facing relegation
« Reply #333 on: October 10, 2022, 10:34:24 PM »
If Ashley was to happen and keep the whole club/stadium/hotel/casino/exhibition/offices package together, the amount he'd need to spend on a rugby squad to be successful (as stated above) is "peanuts" to what Newcastle was in the Premier League or even the Championship to get out off that.

If the NEC Group are interested, then that indicates to me that the other "business interests" at the CBS have a genuine business potential for investors aside from rugby.

Lots to come out over the next few days, but at least things seem to be happening.

NellyWellyWaspy

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Re: Wasps facing relegation
« Reply #334 on: October 10, 2022, 10:36:52 PM »
If the club goes in to administration, any buyer can kiss goodbye to the stadium. Coventry City Council are not allowed to be 'nice guys'. They have a duty to bring the best possible deal to their taxpayers, and that means taking back the stadium and selling to the highest bidder, likely to be NEC if all that talk is true.

So the Armstrong bid is dead in the water.

Mike Ashley might indeed buy it, to get the stadium, and then use that to leverage a purchase of CCFC. Say what you may of him, he will not be as bad as SISU for them. He doesn't want Wasps (he has no interest in Rugby at all), so he will re-sell them, maybe to Armstrong, but without the stadium, and probably still with some debt. That will leave Armstrong having to build or buy a stadium. Would he buy the Sixways site? If he does, he loses any Wasps fan who comes by train from the South East, as it is almost quicker to cycle that journey than take the train. And alienates every citizen of Worcestershire.

The NEC wouldn't care which way they acquire the asset, and wouldn't care about Wasps or CCFC, being quite likely to kick them both out as quickly as they can, and use the pitch for exhibition space instead.

Wait, this all sounds very much like a post I did earlier, where the best case scenario was for Wasps to at least stay in the PRL and not go in to administration, but get kicked out of the Arena within a few years. Then all they need is a new stadium. And, I said then, giving Coventry RFC some room and thus not in Coventry.

That is the best Wasps can hope for. I think Administration is more likely. I think we will see HMRC/DCMS issue more winding up orders very soon, as it is clearly very effective at concentrating the minds of owners at these clubs, especially if Wasps pull something off and get that £2m to them in time.

NellyWellyWaspy

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Re: Wasps facing relegation
« Reply #335 on: October 10, 2022, 10:39:01 PM »
Or maybe Ashley would look after Wasps, who knows?

SportsDirect could set up a warehouse at the site, run the shop ....

DarkKnight63

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Re: Wasps facing relegation
« Reply #336 on: October 10, 2022, 10:45:12 PM »

WonkyWasp

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Re: Wasps facing relegation
« Reply #337 on: October 10, 2022, 10:46:50 PM »
Gordon Bennet  -  I'm going to bed to rest my brain.  What on earth will tomorrow bring? ? ?

Neils

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Re: Wasps facing relegation
« Reply #338 on: October 10, 2022, 10:56:35 PM »
Gordon Bennet  -  I'm going to bed to rest my brain.  What on earth will tomorrow bring? ? ?

The Chinese in partnership with Putin.
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Raggs

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Re: Wasps facing relegation
« Reply #339 on: October 10, 2022, 10:57:35 PM »
I can't see how anyone thinks waiting for us to go into administration is a good thing? Yes you don't have to deal with the debt, but there'll be virtually no assets either, no stadium, likely no P shares, and no premiership place either.

Heathen

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Re: Wasps facing relegation
« Reply #340 on: October 10, 2022, 11:06:55 PM »
If the club goes in to administration, any buyer can kiss goodbye to the stadium. Coventry City Council are not allowed to be 'nice guys'. They have a duty to bring the best possible deal to their taxpayers, and that means taking back the stadium and selling to the highest bidder, likely to be NEC if all that talk is true.

So the Armstrong bid is dead in the water.

Mike Ashley might indeed buy it, to get the stadium, and then use that to leverage a purchase of CCFC. Say what you may of him, he will not be as bad as SISU for them. He doesn't want Wasps (he has no interest in Rugby at all), so he will re-sell them, maybe to Armstrong, but without the stadium, and probably still with some debt. That will leave Armstrong having to build or buy a stadium. Would he buy the Sixways site? If he does, he loses any Wasps fan who comes by train from the South East, as it is almost quicker to cycle that journey than take the train. And alienates every citizen of Worcestershire.

The NEC wouldn't care which way they acquire the asset, and wouldn't care about Wasps or CCFC, being quite likely to kick them both out as quickly as they can, and use the pitch for exhibition space instead.

Wait, this all sounds very much like a post I did earlier, where the best case scenario was for Wasps to at least stay in the PRL and not go in to administration, but get kicked out of the Arena within a few years. Then all they need is a new stadium. And, I said then, giving Coventry RFC some room and thus not in Coventry.

That is the best Wasps can hope for. I think Administration is more likely. I think we will see HMRC/DCMS issue more winding up orders very soon, as it is clearly very effective at concentrating the minds of owners at these clubs, especially if Wasps pull something off and get that £2m to them in time.

£2M is pocket money to the high rollers. If that could not be sorted that is an extremely poor situation.

Shugs

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Re: Wasps facing relegation
« Reply #341 on: October 10, 2022, 11:15:38 PM »
This is fascinating and stomach churning in equal measure. What we don’t know is who the reported other two bidders are given five are quoted and we only know of Armstrong, Ashley, NEC. Armstrong’s bid seems the most favourable and I can’t understand why other clubs would vote to strip us of our P share if a number of them are in a similar position?

Vespula Vulgaris

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Re: Wasps facing relegation
« Reply #342 on: October 11, 2022, 06:45:45 AM »
This is fascinating and stomach churning in equal measure. What we don’t know is who the reported other two bidders are given five are quoted and we only know of Armstrong, Ashley, NEC. Armstrong’s bid seems the most favourable and I can’t understand why other clubs would vote to strip us of our P share if a number of them are in a similar position?

Because the fewer there are the more they are worth? At keast in theory.

I suspect that if the Premiership is willing to let 2 teams go to the wall in a month the whole comp will.soon be worth a lot less.
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Westy68

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Re: Wasps facing relegation
« Reply #343 on: October 11, 2022, 07:28:41 AM »
Ashley would be scary for me, I except it doesn’t cost a lot of money to run a rugby team, with a £5m cap. If you compare it to football but football brings in so much money, Newcastle get massive crowds, tv money it massive. Rugby just loses money, not sure Ashley would be interested in that.

I think we’re in serious trouble, don’t like the sound of the board turning against Richardson. He rightly wants his money back. It looks like to me we are going into administration, we will be relegated and we will lose a lot of good players.

Real shame, as I honestly believe we have the makings of a fantastic team, so many quality youngsters coming through.

I think it’s time we come back home, unfortunately playing in the championship - gutted

Neils

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Re: Wasps facing relegation
« Reply #344 on: October 11, 2022, 07:32:26 AM »
Telegraph exclusive -


Exclusive: Prospective Wasps owners will stomach relegation if lucrative 'P share' retained
The P share, which entitles the 13 Premiership clubs to annual payouts as well as voting rights, is seen as a vital asset by front-runners

By
Charles Richardson,
 RUGBY REPORTER
10 October 2022 • 10:00pm
The leading bidders to take over Wasps would reluctantly accept relegation in the event of administration - as long as the stricken club is able to retain its lucrative P share.

Telegraph Sport has learnt that Premiership clubs and the Rugby Football Union met on Monday afternoon to decide whether Wasps would be automatically relegated under regulation 5, should the West Midlands club fall into administration.

Premiership clubs and the English governing body also voted on whether Wasps would be able to retain their P share - owned by each of the 13 Premiership clubs, entitling them to annual payouts from central funding as well as voting rights on league matters - which is seen as a vital asset by the front-runners to take over the club, a consortium being led by former chief executive, David Armstrong, alongside investment firm, Terminum Capital and advisors, Oakwell Sport.

Armstrong's bid incorporates both the rugby club and its Coventry Building Society Arena, keeping them as one entity, and while it is understood that the consortium would prefer Wasps to retain their Premiership status, it is not integral to their takeover bid. Despite Mike Ashley also making a bid for the club, Armstrong's is the only viable offer to keep the rugby and stadium business whole.

The outcome of the clubs’ vote on Monday is unknown but the expectation, with several of them also in debt to HM Revenue and Customs, is that they would vote against allowing Wasps to retain their P share, which is worth in excess of £9 million. Making matters gloomier for the West Midlands side is that only a six-club majority would be required in any ballot, with both Worcester and Wasps unable to vote.

Telegraph Sport understands that a number of Premiership clubs are keen to see the league reduced to 10 sides and would not hold back from condemning Wasps to both relegation and a surrendering of their P share in the event of administration.

A well-placed source told Telegraph Sport: "We need to know the position of the Premiership clubs. Do the majority of owners want Wasps to remain as a Premiership club? Does the RFU want a wider playing pool? Is there any sympathy for a club that has come through Covid?”

Should the clubs vote to strip Wasps of their P share, however, all might not be lost. If the West Midlands side could prove that their financial complications have come about due to the impact of the Covid-19 pandemic, then a "no-fault insolvency" clause in the RFU's regulations would come into play and potentially spare the club from relegation or see them preserve their P share depending on the governing body’s judgment.

The RFU's "no-fault insolvency" clause states: "[The RFU] in its absolute discretion may reduce or waive in its entirety any sanction... where it is satisfied that the insolvency event would not have occurred but for...any epidemic or pandemic as categorised as such by the UK Government and/or the World Health Organisation".

Even if relegation to the Championship were forced upon Wasps, the club proving a "no-fault insolvency" - which is not a far-fetched conclusion considering how brutally the revenues of Premiership clubs were ravaged during the Covid pandemic - and retaining their P share by way of force majeure would still keep Armstrong's consortium interested.


If Wasps could not prove a "no-fault insolvency" then any potential takeover might have the option to repurchase the P share at a later date, but it would cost £9m to do so.

Telegraph Sport understands, too, that Wasps' £35m worth of debt to bondholders would be fully repaid by the consortium fronted by Armstrong.
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