Wasps facing relegation

[Steve from Cov]

I think as a club we are in trouble.  I genuinely believe that without Covid we may well have created a business sustainable enough to support the rugby club.  But right now I think that we need a vast amount of money to keep just the business afloat.  I also think that without Derek the chances of us losing the club in order to keep the business going are way too high for my liking.

I'm going to nail my colours to the mast here and say that however this pans out I am deeply grateful to him for what he has done over the last few years.  We wouldn't have had a club without him, and if it turns out we don't have a club in the future it changes nothing. I have had a huge amount of joy from my association with him and the club and I wish there was a way it could continue.

+1. Derek comes across as a very decent bloke and a big Wasps fan. It will be sad to see him moving on.
 

[baldpaul101]

I agree with others that Wasps are on the brink here.
Sadly I think if Wasps get relegated that will be the end.

Assume that for wasps to be relegated they must first go bust/into liquidation whatever the correct term is.
Also assume that if they go bust they must sell/forfeit the CBS arena to pay off the Bond.
Given wasps don't own the training ground, what assets do they have apart from their P share? And there's no guarantee they would be allowed to keep that.
If Wasps goes bust the players & coaches won't be paid so will be free to sign elsewhere, for some onto the dole probably!
So Wasps could find themselves with nowhere to play, no team to play with, no coaches, no P share & no money…
How would they be able to survive in the Championship ?

If it got to that point IMO they would go the way of London Welsh & remain as an amateur club only.

The solution has to be some kind of takeover/buy out that clears the debts without the club going into formal liquidation & keeps hold of the stadium, its P share & the players.
However it sounds like some of the buyers would prefer the club to go bust so they can pick the stadium up separately, as that seems wasps only real asset.

We just have to hope someone has deep enough pockets to be able to cover the debt & have enough working capital to move the whole thing forward, unlikely as that may sound.

If the above happens I would second what VV says, Derek rescued Wasps & has allowed us all to enjoy exciting rugby with some truly amazing players over the last few years. We should all be thankful for that, even the future looks bleak.

[Heathen]

Given Wasps don't own the training ground, what assets do they have apart from their P share?

Christopher Holland, our Chief Operating Officer, owns the training ground.

[mike909]

I feel I'm on the same page as others.  I was only thinking back to 70's Divisional rugby with a mate the other day.  The time when we could  get cheap tickets for old HQ. I identified as a Wasp back then and when watching England at the 87 RWC.via being the only Wasp in a whole block at Tigers getting up and shouting when we scored. In the 2010's  I've not been able to attend many recent games due to 5 years of random health but love the forum  And watch every live tv game. And am really rather affected by all of this. Local S Glos games await. 

[baldpaul101]

Given Wasps don't own the training ground, what assets do they have apart from their P share?

Christopher Holland, our Chief Operating Officer, owns the training ground.

Agreed, but the point still stands, Wasps don't own the training ground, its owned by another company owned by Chris Holland yes?
I wouldn't have thought it therefore could not be listed as a Wasps asset?
If there are no players to train there & no club to pay insurance, utility bills, grounds men etc, I'm not sure what value it would have anyway, apart from the land itself of course.

[WonkyWasp]

Heart-breaking for Derek.

[Rossm]

More on Ashley from Andy Turner, Cov Tel.

Mike Ashley in Coventry City link amid Wasps and CBS Arena takeover claims

https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/football/football-news/coventry-city-mike-ashley-stadium-25230612

[DGP Wasp]

Given Wasps don't own the training ground, what assets do they have apart from their P share?

Christopher Holland, our Chief Operating Officer, owns the training ground.

Agreed, but the point still stands, Wasps don't own the training ground, its owned by another company owned by Chris Holland yes?
I wouldn't have thought it therefore could not be listed as a Wasps asset?
If there are no players to train there & no club to pay insurance, utility bills, grounds men etc, I'm not sure what value it would have anyway, apart from the land itself of course.

Is this not akin to some of the shenanigans at Worcester before they went, albeit on a smaller scale?  Owners strategically offloading key assets just to place them beyond the reach of administrators in that event.  As I understand it from some of the Worcester discussions there are safeguards in place to reclaim such assets if needed, but I have no idea how that works.  If the administrators can see through this at Worcester and reclaim the car park or what ever other bits of land they hastily "sold", then presumably they can do the same with Wasps and the training ground.

[hookender]

Given Wasps don't own the training ground, what assets do they have apart from their P share?

Christopher Holland, our Chief Operating Officer, owns the training ground.

Agreed, but the point still stands, Wasps don't own the training ground, its owned by another company owned by Chris Holland yes?
I wouldn't have thought it therefore could not be listed as a Wasps asset?
If there are no players to train there & no club to pay insurance, utility bills, grounds men etc, I'm not sure what value it would have anyway, apart from the land itself of course.

Is this not akin to some of the shenanigans at Worcester before they went, albeit on a smaller scale?  Owners strategically offloading key assets just to place them beyond the reach of administrators in that event.  As I understand it from some of the Worcester discussions there are safeguards in place to reclaim such assets if needed, but I have no idea how that works.  If the administrators can see through this at Worcester and reclaim the car park or what ever other bits of land they hastily "sold", then presumably they can do the same with Wasps and the training ground.

Probably depends on how it was purchased originally. Was it bought through a seperate company with Wasps just renting/leasing , so never a wasps holdings asset.

[Neils]

LoL clarifies and apologises. This looks like a complete lift from his statement on Rugby Tonight -


https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/rugby/lawrence-dallaglio-wasps-worcester-warriors-25232859

[Vespula Vulgaris]

I don't know for certain, but having met Chris and Derek at the training centre both during the build, and at the official opening I think Chris was responsible for making it happen in the first place. I suspect he went a long way to financing it as well as managing the project overall.

I'd guess that his investment got him a place on the board and an agreement that Wasps would be the sole tenants of the facility, which lets remember, is world class.

If Wasps go to the wall he has a world class training centre that while originally made for Rugby could very easily be turned to something else.

Or perhaps Ashley will buy that too.

[Westy68]

LoL clarifies and apologises. This looks like a complete lift from his statement on Rugby Tonight -


https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/rugby/lawrence-dallaglio-wasps-worcester-warriors-25232859

Very concerned about the last paragraph saying the board is split on what is best and has put some buyers off

[NellyWellyWaspy]

This is all very much more complicated because it has dragged on for months and months (much like with Worcester), as best options have fallen away for worse options to be considered, and as they become the only options, for them to fall away too.

If Mike Ashley would want CCFC, that would have to come first, and that would take months. Not happening.

If Mike Ashley wants Wasps, and the Arena. Fine, but I do not understand why?

If Mike Ashley wants the Arena, and would buy Wasps to get it, I can see him offloading Wasps and kicking us out. I can then see him offering to buy CCFC, but at the same time working on alternate uses for the Arena.

If Mike Ashley wants the Arena and Wasps, but wants Wasps out of the Arena, he would have to build a new stadium, which would take time.

My guess is that SISU will sell CCFC only if the buyer also agrees to buy the Arena for them.

If we go in to administration, I can see someone, like NEC, buying the arena and kicking at least us out (and maybe CCFC).

In most scenarios I can see why someone would buy us before Administration, to get the Arena and boot us out (at some point).

I cannot see anyone wanting Wasps if in Administration and relegated. At least, not for any large wad of cash.

Personally, I care not one jot where we play, but would prefer it to be still in the Premiership. I do not like the Arena. It is impersonal, doesn't feel like a rugby stadium, is too big, and it really should be the home of CCFC, not Wasps.

Given the investment in the Training Ground, it would be good for the players to have a home ground in and around that area, but please not Sixways. That would feel so totally wrong.

I simply cannot see this getting resolved before next Wednesday, I really can't. It is too complex.

[Rossm]

This is slightly OTT, but can anyone tell me what CCFC/SBT are making of all this?

[DGP Wasp]

This is slightly OTT, but can anyone tell me what CCFC/SBT are making of all this?

No idea, but I'd be prepared to stick my neck out and guess that it includes: "Hurry up and go"; "Should never have come here in the first place"; "Hope they sink without trace"; "Now give us our stadium back"; "F*** off back to London"; "Serves them right" etc...

Am I right??