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Author Topic: Telegraph - Dave Walder Comments (I had forgotten he was still with us)  (Read 3776 times)

Neils

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Dave Walder: Wasps' spending on superstar names had caught up with them

Former Wasps fly-half described the club's demise as 'very, very sad' and 'brutal'
By Gareth Davies 16 October 2022 • 2:04pm


Wasps' "brutal" demise is down to the club stretching "beyond their means" by paying their "superstars", the Newcastle Falcons head coach Dave Walder has suggested.

The former Wasps fly-half spent four years at the troubled club before their doomed move to Coventry in 2014,  and recalled playing his old employers in a Premiership Cup match at the Ricoh Arena in front of just 250 people - a sign, he thought, that the writing may have been on the wall. 

Asked about the situation, he said: “It’s dire and it’s brutal. I mean, I think reality is, it's really sad for everyone there at Wasps.

“The players they've got in their group and the squad they've assembled and the budgets they've paid, you know, they've got some superstars in there and I guess it was probably just getting a bit beyond their means.

“But it's very, very sad.”

Coventry has become a graveyard of huge names for the famous club. But considering Kurtley Beale, Elliot Daly, Jimmy Gopperth, Danny Cipriani, Christian Wade, George Smith, Willie Le Roux and Charles Piatau have all played for Wasps since their relocation, it's easy to see how the wage bill might’ve piled up.

Walder, who cut his teeth at No 10 at Coventry-based Keresley RFC, added: “As a group have been talking from the move to Coventry, about the pressures they’ll be under and making things work, and I think there's always been that ‘we'll be alright, we'll be alright’ mindset.

“And then all of a sudden I think it sort of snuck up. With everything that was going on, and Worcester hitting the headlines, obviously what was going on at Wasps wasn't too far away.

“But it was certainly a big shock to read when they announced their intent to go into administration.

“I think it caught everyone by surprise and then the past two weeks have flown by and they are where they are, which is really sad.

“We played them in a Prem Cup game and there were 250 people in the Ricoh Arena.

“That's probably a sign of maybe why things haven't quite gone [to plan].”

With both Worcester Warriors and Wasps suspended from the Premiership and their futures hanging in the balance, is this a warning to smaller clubs like Newcastle? Walder doesn’t think so.

“Well, no I think rugby is precarious and I think it’s been precarious for a while,” he said. “Players’ wages have been going up and up and up and the income hasn’t necessarily been.

“Hopefully this is the last of it.

“You never want it and I think I said I hoped Worcester was the last of it, but obviously two weeks later, they’re not.

“It really is important we draw a line under it and we make the changes - whatever changes they are and whatever people decide to do - commit to it and make sure it’s financially sound and sustainable.

“That’s the key, because looking at the results today, the product on the pitch is outstanding with the closeness of games and how they’re being played - it’s great to watch.

“We’ve just got to make sure there’s more clubs playing than aren’t.”

Northampton Saints’ director of rugby Phil Dowson called the situation “tragic”, but suggested it wasn’t completely surprising.

He said: “It’s tragic, and it’s not just one club that’s financially struggling, it’s an industry that’s financially struggling. And it’s something to be aware of.

“We’re very lucky here to have a steady board and a quality MD and stuff, but every club is losing money so we need to take that into account when we’re working towards how we rectify that.”
Let me tell you something cucumber

wasps

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Re: Telegraph - Dave Walder Comments (I had forgotten he was still with us)
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2022, 07:25:35 AM »
Did the galactico signings really cause this?
Charles piutau was our highest paid signing I believe at £1m per year, and he was here for 1 year.
Other signings, Beale, Smith, WlR weren't on as much as him, but even if they were it meant that we used the marquee system to pay an extra £1m per year on star players for about 5 years.


So that's a worst case scenario of a £5m hole we'd be in, before you consider any financial benefit we may have got from having those players (increased attendance, sponsorship, merch sales etc)
My understanding is that we've got much bigger problems then that

Vespula Vulgaris

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Re: Telegraph - Dave Walder Comments (I had forgotten he was still with us)
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2022, 07:27:05 AM »
It's absolute bulls**t.

What killed the club was Covid. The plan was always high risk high reward, but Covid lockdowns destroyed every aspect of a multi-stream business.
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Neils

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Re: Telegraph - Dave Walder Comments (I had forgotten he was still with us)
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2022, 07:35:41 AM »
It's absolute bulls**t.

What killed the club was Covid. The plan was always high risk high reward, but Covid lockdowns destroyed every aspect of a multi-stream business.

This
Let me tell you something cucumber

Sliminator

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Re: Telegraph - Dave Walder Comments (I had forgotten he was still with us)
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2022, 07:46:59 AM »
Did the galactico signings really cause this?
Charles piutau was our highest paid signing I believe at £1m per year, and he was here for 1 year.
Other signings, Beale, Smith, WlR weren't on as much as him, but even if they were it meant that we used the marquee system to pay an extra £1m per year on star players for about 5 years.


So that's a worst case scenario of a £5m hole we'd be in, before you consider any financial benefit we may have got from having those players (increased attendance, sponsorship, merch sales etc)
My understanding is that we've got much bigger problems then that

I don't think that Wasps paid Piutau anything like £1m (that's what he is reported to be on at Bris and he became the highest paid Prem player when he went there) we likely got him fairly cheap as he had a year before he could go to Ulster and was out of contract when we picked him up.

BlackAndGoldSunglasses

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Re: Telegraph - Dave Walder Comments (I had forgotten he was still with us)
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2022, 07:50:09 AM »
It's absolute bulls**t.

What killed the club was Covid. The plan was always high risk high reward, but Covid lockdowns destroyed every aspect of a multi-stream business.

This - I've said it repeatedly, and were cashflow now to be adequate I still believe the business model is strong.

Wasps should have a very good case for exemption from relegation through the "Covid clause".

Whether is is enough, who knows?

Sliminator

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Re: Telegraph - Dave Walder Comments (I had forgotten he was still with us)
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2022, 08:07:18 AM »
Wasps took a gamble to try and become a sustainable club, with a supporting business around it. SISU's legal action (probably stopped us getting a new naming rights sponsor), Covid, cost of living crisis, global financial slow down, have all contributed. Whether it would have been a success without these we will never know.

Shugs

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Re: Telegraph - Dave Walder Comments (I had forgotten he was still with us)
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2022, 08:13:40 AM »
Why don’t people like Walder just say I don’t want to comment rather than spouting inaccurate bilge.

Rossm

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Re: Telegraph - Dave Walder Comments (I had forgotten he was still with us)
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2022, 08:27:05 AM »
Why don’t people like Walder just say I don’t want to comment rather than spouting inaccurate bilge.

No comment = £00.00

Inaccurate bilge = £?
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WonkyWasp

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Re: Telegraph - Dave Walder Comments (I had forgotten he was still with us)
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2022, 08:37:05 AM »
I always liked Dave Walder but this is as load of old twosh.  I've been to almost every match at the then Ricoh and I've never ever ever seen a total 250 only supporters!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Or even 2500.  9000 on a bad day yes, but only about twice.  The minimum was about 12000.  Did he really truly say 250  -  is it a misprint or have I read it wrong? During covid, yes.  But so was everyone else.  And the Glory Boys  (inc my favourite George Smith) were only there for one season each.  I suggest Mr Walder saves up his money and gets either new glasses or an improved source of information. 

mike909

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Re: Telegraph - Dave Walder Comments (I had forgotten he was still with us)
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2022, 08:42:40 AM »
Why don’t people like Walder just say I don’t want to comment rather than spouting inaccurate bilge.
There's a saying that does something like "sometimes it's better to say nothing and for people to only suspect you're an idiot, rather than to speak and confirm their suspicions"

wasps

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Re: Telegraph - Dave Walder Comments (I had forgotten he was still with us)
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2022, 08:46:41 AM »
Did the galactico signings really cause this?
Charles piutau was our highest paid signing I believe at £1m per year, and he was here for 1 year.
Other signings, Beale, Smith, WlR weren't on as much as him, but even if they were it meant that we used the marquee system to pay an extra £1m per year on star players for about 5 years.


So that's a worst case scenario of a £5m hole we'd be in, before you consider any financial benefit we may have got from having those players (increased attendance, sponsorship, merch sales etc)
My understanding is that we've got much bigger problems then that

I don't think that Wasps paid Piutau anything like £1m (that's what he is reported to be on at Bris and he became the highest paid Prem player when he went there) we likely got him fairly cheap as he had a year before he could go to Ulster and was out of contract when we picked him up.


Maybe it was Beale that we reportedly paid £1m for.
Sure it was someone

Heathen

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Re: Telegraph - Dave Walder Comments (I had forgotten he was still with us)
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2022, 09:03:56 AM »
I still feel that the whole project was flawed from Day 1.

Eastwood was incompetent at the RFU. Ditto at Wasps. The financial fundamentals were not followed and no/insuffiecient due diligence was done. The issuing of the bond was the start of the slippery slope into oblivion.

InBetweenWasp

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Re: Telegraph - Dave Walder Comments (I had forgotten he was still with us)
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2022, 09:11:25 AM »
I always liked Dave Walder but this is as load of old twosh.  I've been to almost every match at the then Ricoh and I've never ever ever seen a total 250 only supporters!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Or even 2500.  9000 on a bad day yes, but only about twice.  The minimum was about 12000.  Did he really truly say 250  -  is it a misprint or have I read it wrong? During covid, yes.  But so was everyone else.  And the Glory Boys  (inc my favourite George Smith) were only there for one season each.  I suggest Mr Walder saves up his money and gets either new glasses or an improved source of information.

It does say in a Premiership Cup match, which was most likely about a month ago on a Tuesday night when we played Newcastle at home.  So think it's being read wrong WonkyWasp.

InBetweenWasp

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Re: Telegraph - Dave Walder Comments (I had forgotten he was still with us)
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2022, 09:17:52 AM »
It's absolute bulls**t.

What killed the club was Covid. The plan was always high risk high reward, but Covid lockdowns destroyed every aspect of a multi-stream business.

They need to prove it though and it's difficult to do - consistent losses year on year would suggest covid wasn't an anomaly. 

There's been a number of domestic and geo-political events that the group businesses will have felt more acutely than other Clubs with a more straightforward business.  The SISU/Council Legal Cases (Which amounted to nothing but sucked up time and resources plus delayed naming-rights negotiations), Brexit and staffing, Covid, Russia/Ukraine impacting food, beverage and energy costs.

I do wonder what the deal with HSBC+others was that they were supposedly close to getting over the line (but didn't).  I'm guessing it'll come out eventually.