Ex Wasps signing for new clubs

[wasps]

I can certainly see a scenario where Wray tells the players that investing in their businesses is totally above board and has been agreed with the salary cap manager.


In fact, I believe there was agreement from the salary cap manager that Wray had indeed asked permission to do just that and was informed that it was ok.


Therefore I can see that players would be convinced that everything is fine.






The fact that the salary cap manager said that he only agreed to something similar once, and Wray then felt he had carte blanche to do whatever he wants is a slightly different matter.

[baldpaul101]

Using some of the logic applied here, you could argue that any Wasps player who signed for the club, or re-signed, in the last few seasons should have known the club was in serious financial sh1t & therefore shouldn't have been surprised when they were made redundant.

The reality of course was that the club told the players there was nothing to worry about & the players believed it. As did the vast majority of people on here, me included.
If Sarries players asked their club if their contracts were ok & were told they were, were they really to know it wasn't?

[RogerE]

Using some of the logic applied here, you could argue that any Wasps player who signed for the club, or re-signed, in the last few seasons should have known the club was in serious financial sh1t & therefore shouldn't have been surprised when they were made redundant.

The reality of course was that the club told the players there was nothing to worry about & the players believed it. As did the vast majority of people on here, me included.
If Sarries players asked their club if their contracts were ok & were told they were, were they really to know it wasn't?

However, all those players have managers, and although, I understand, Sarries would only negotiate with the palyers, there is no way those players would not have kept their managers informed. Even the most dense mamagers should have realised that what was being offered was suspicious.

[Rifleman Harris]

My point is..the Cheats have been exposed as cheating once, strongly suspected once and yet they still fill their squad with more British Lions than Scotland do under a reduced salary cap.  The players know what Sarracens are before they sign.  They cheat, and players go into that environment knowingly.

The comparison with Wasps doesn't work.  Wasps were in financial difficulty, but most clubs are, so it is a risk either way and traditionally sports clubs at this level (mainly football clubs admittedly) find a rescue package from somewhere.  So, yes it is a risk, but no significantly different from signing for most clubs. 

If the players are so gullible that they can't see that the Cheats are still cheating, then I'm a Nigerian Prince looking to give them £40m (for a small cost to cover my admin obviously).  I have no sympathy with any player joining that club, they know what they are getting into.

[Neils]

My point is..the Cheats have been exposed as cheating once, strongly suspected once and yet they still fill their squad with more British Lions than Scotland do under a reduced salary cap.  The players know what Sarracens are before they sign.  They cheat, and players go into that environment knowingly.

The comparison with Wasps doesn't work.  Wasps were in financial difficulty, but most clubs are, so it is a risk either way and traditionally sports clubs at this level (mainly football clubs admittedly) find a rescue package from somewhere.  So, yes it is a risk, but no significantly different from signing for most clubs. 

If the players are so gullible that they can't see that the Cheats are still cheating, then I'm a Nigerian Prince looking to give them £40m (for a small cost to cover my admin obviously).  I have no sympathy with any player joining that club, they know what they are getting into.

As you are on this site frequently I would suggest Mr Prince that I could assist you in that funding!

[wasps]

Ultimately, the authorities have deemed (rightly or wrongly) that Saracens are now completely clean and that any previous issues were mostly clerical.


I can see an argument where that should be enough for a player.






(Please note that I still hate Saracens)

[baldpaul101]

(Please note that I still hate Saracens)

I totally agree with this.

BUT, as far as the salary cap is concerned, I don't hold it against the players. They want to earn as much as they can, as quickly as they can, & I cannot blame them for that.
IMO the management, including the coaches should have been banned, like Deano was for bloodgate.

[westwaleswasp]

If Tom Willis can get a contract at what is currently the best club in England,that have a incredible reputation for looking after their players (yes, sometimes not legally) which will give him the best chance of getting England selection & winning silverware then I cannot be anything other than very happy for him. Its his livelihood we are talking about FFS!

You are perfectly entitled to be happy for him, of course . Nobody is telling you otherwise. Sarries for me are a cancer and will remain so until being properly punished and I wish anyone who joins them ill because I believe rugby would be better off without them in their current incarnation. I have turned down money in my career on points of principle, others in similar situations my see putting family income first as more important. This is why so many MPs are happy to accept cash for questions and other financial rewards.Their careers are potentially  short and rewards smaller than for a top rugby player. Such is life, people have differing values, all to be expected and fair. As long as we are allowed to agree and disagree it is fair enough.

[wasps]

Unfortunately, as I've said before, history is written by the victors and right now, Saracens look like they'll be on that side

[westwaleswasp]

I am not so sure.
They struggle to get 10k despite the trophies and proper stadium. Nobody really wants to be associated with them,and BT aside, who have to big them up and forget to avoid devaluing the product, they don't generate the column inches of warmth love they did when PR bought them the rugby journalist establishment.
Nigel the spiv will die someday, and although he has 'walked away', Lucy Wray's presence suggests they are still operating as they were. Look what happened to Warriors post Duckworth. By contrast this is an unloved unwatched club operating in a rugby desert that is considered by many fans to have won nothing. Their ideal scenario, a Euro league, offers them their best chance of wider rugby acceptance except it won't happen because the French and Irish don't need it and the Welsh don't want it.
It is analogous to Barca et al's attempts.
Workd rugby want cross hemisphere events and unified calendars. A big Euro plus SA league is inimical  to that end. Without a Euro league Sarries will be tainted and losing cash hand over fist until Nigel dies and someone takes the money away.

[Shugs]

Maybe they will eventually. But nobody in the game thinks they own any titles yet as the victories were achieved whilst proven to be cheating.

[wasps]

Is that view of Saracens really that widespread?


It's obviously rife amongst us, but outside I just don't see it particularly often.


It's like it's already being forgotten

[westwaleswasp]

I think among club rugby fans it is.
Once you remove yourself from BT and speak to fans the view is they have no credibility.
Among the 'watch the 6n only crowd', well that is different. But their opinion us not rugby opinion, really.

[Neils]

I think among club rugby fans it is.
Once you remove yourself from BT and speak to fans the view is they have no credibility.
Among the 'watch the 6n only crowd', well that is different. But their opinion us not rugby opinion, really.

Totally.

[jamestaylor002]

I think among club rugby fans it is.
Once you remove yourself from BT and speak to fans the view is they have no credibility.
Among the 'watch the 6n only crowd', well that is different. But their opinion us not rugby opinion, really.

Agreed - those who know, know. Those who don't know, don't.