England

[Shugs]

And AGAIN, huge press build up to Tuilagi and he just did absolutely nothing. The myth of Sinckler and Genge was busted by a couple of decent props. We knew NZ would be ferocious at the breakdown so wheeled the anonymous Simmonds in with the best breakdown merchant in England in the bench. No attacking craft, no discipline and largely no idea.

[mike909]

Grabbing a late draw after an hour plus of turgid and over structured play is probably the worst outcome for anyone who'd like England to look like a team that's more than the sum of its parts. The front the Rugby Post this morning is hailing this a great performance from England "to keep in the game". A game that Jones suggests many teams would have lost badly from HT.

But to select Nowell, BV and MT and others as starters and fail to play until desperation took over is not a plan for success. England have always been able to win a game. the 2012 6Ns vs France as an example. But haven't looked like they really know what they are trying to do for a long time. Having a big pack can often get you a win - but England have consistently been outthought and/or out paced too often. The contrast when watching Ireland is stark. Farrell's team really are comfortable about how to win a game and managed what few if any NH sides have done in the summer in NZ.

If SA play for 80 next weekend, we might well get a result that reflects those "lacks" of pace and thinking overlaid by a lack of power (in comparison to SA) and one that might not be v pretty. Such a result would do England no harm.

[WonkyWasp]

Zinzan Brooke can't believe that the RFU have let Shaun slip thro' their fingers yet again. Probably didn't want to work with EJ.  ''The Rugby Paper''  claims  'Jones hails England's incredible fightback'.  Considering the ABs were a man down and the result was a draw Jones should shut up.  The good news for chez Wonky is that it appears that Hereford has a wheelchair rugby club so a friend has promised to research.

[hookender]

[quote author=WonkyWasp link=topic=5787.msg100225#msg100225 date=1668943181
The good news for chez Wonky is that it appears that Hereford has a wheelchair rugby club so a friend has promised to research.
[/quote]

What position do you fancy having a go at?

[Andywasp50]

Dan Robson a ten?

Whoops! Corrected now!

[wasps]

The majority of England fans like a gritty, determined performance.
It's what England rugby's history is built on
A never say die, arm wrestle in the mud, eventually overpowering they opposition is seen as our core structure.


As wasps fans, we want to see something different.
I wonder what if the majority of fans of other clubs feel differently to us

[WonkyWasp]

Hookender .... I'm not  proud.  Anywhere will do!

[Neils]

Watching the France v Japan match and there is virtually nobody walking up and down the aisles. If this was Twickenham then ....

[Brandnewtorugby]

Didn't see the game, did England do a lap of honour?!

[jamestaylor002]

Watching the France v Japan match and there is virtually nobody walking up and down the aisles. If this was Twickenham then ....

One of the last England games I went to, back in 2018, the majority of people who were sat down weren't even watching the game but we talking amongst each other about unrelated gossip. They clearly had no intention of watching the game. They certainly wasted their money on tickets, unless that's the cost of being able to post a picture onto Instagram to say they were there. The RFU won't care, they sold the tickets, but fans who want to watch the game miss out.

[andermt]

Watching the France v Japan match and there is virtually nobody walking up and down the aisles. If this was Twickenham then ....

One of the last England games I went to, back in 2018, the majority of people who were sat down weren't even watching the game but we talking amongst each other about unrelated gossip. They clearly had no intention of watching the game. They certainly wasted their money on tickets, unless that's the cost of being able to post a picture onto Instagram to say they were there. The RFU won't care, they sold the tickets, but fans who want to watch the game miss out.

That is what happens at pretty much every game at Twickenham, haven't been to an England test, I go to Murrayfield for my internationals, but have been to Eng vs BaaBaa's, Prem Finals, Big Games etc and it's always the same, lots of talking about random stuff and not watching the match, or constantly heading to the bar for beer. I went to the Quins vs BaaBaa's match last Thursday and that was exactly the same, in fact I'd go so far as to say it was the worst game I had been at for that level of movement during play, people were watching the game but constantly on the move.
So maybe it's a local thing.

[petros]

So we will apparently revert to 3 starting locks next week!

Hard to figure out what changes we will see but expect us to be heavily outmuscled as Italy were in the last 30 mins.

[DGP Wasp]

Finally watched the whole match yesterday.  For Eddie to attribute the comeback to achieve a draw (yes, a draw, in case anyone needs reminding, they still didn't win!) to "magic dust" just shows the arrogance of the man.  No accountability for the dire first 70 minutes, trying instead to convince the media that England were doing what he'd coached them to do throughout, but suddenly passes started sticking in the last 10 minutes.

That whole match showed most of us that Eddie got his selection and tactics wrong (again).  Against SA, the front row needs shaking up, Ribbans should start ahead of Hill, Willis for either Simmonds or Billy, Slade for Tuilagi, and some pace on the wing in place of Nowell.  That and allowing Smith to run the game from 10 instead of Farrell destroying any attacking momentum.  Farrell's leg injury allowed this to happen on Saturday to some extent.  What we'll actually see is Itoje to 6, Youngs back at 9, everyone else as they were and JVP added to the list of promising young players who've had their confidence destroyed by EJ after one bad day.

[Shugs]

Agree with all of that DGP. It’s like he acknowledges parts were crap to justify sticking Itoje back at 6 whilst still saying it was fine. There’s no way Farrell or Tuilagi are getting dropped. Hill has been poor but will keep his place as we’ll be playing 3 locks from the start. How Willis can’t get a game is just bizarre. Simmonds - for me - is just too easily out powered in the international game. There are issue’s everywhere. As back up props Vunipola and Stuart are weak scrummagers. Nowell is as paceless and formless as I’ve ever seen. Steward is a good full back. He catches well, but he’s not dynamic enough to compensate for those in the back division with him. I thought NZ badly overplayed at times but some of their invention and craft were stuff we wouldn’t dream of attempting. They provided the only entertaining phases in the game. Smith kicking out at the end tells you all you need to know about this regime.

[baldpaul101]

IMO the only nations happy with their performance over the last 12 months will be Ireland & France.
Every one else has has results that should make their management concerned. Everyone seems to be able to beat everyone else on their day.
Could actually make for an interesting world cup...