Well someone had to support Jones and no surprises as to who it was!

[Heathen]

https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/63938344

[Shugs]

Probably upset as he’s not a shoe in now.

[mike909]

There seems to be a bit of a "faith" in Eddie feel from some commentators. I've seen fellow commentators who I generally respect BTL in the Guardian who believe Jones really was holding something back.... If he was, then it was cutting it very late to expose what happening

People who were excusing poor 6Ns tournaments because "he's concentrating on the World Cup" were common. Given the reliance upon international games for income and the cost of tickets that's taking the piss in a big way...Just like several ex players noted - you really need to concentrate on the next game and stop making excuses for losses as "part of the plan".

The 2003 winners were based on a long plan - but that was signposted by SCW from the Tour of Hell to the 1999 RWC as part of focusing on '03. But at no time would he have made excuses for losing as part of the plan.

Jones is a more than decent short term coach who can take someone else's work and get a change but fails to build, and can focus on one game like Japan vs SA (who went through, eh!) England vs NZ.

But any coach who selects players after 5 Prem games and discards them, or selects them and drops them after they barely get a pass isn't a coach that is creating anything long lasting. Nor a coach trusted by players. That podcast on how frazzled players were coming off England duties said it all.

[Shugs]

The whole plan “mystique” that Jones tried to create was just his clever way of giving himself an easy ride. If he did have some sort of mystical plan hoping it would just fall into place at the World Cup was ridiculously risky. Because we’ve seen no sight of it this far. I’ll take a lot of convincing we wouldn’t have gone in basically as we were in the AN games.

[Bloke in North Dorset]

Even if he did have some grand plan that would only be revealed at the WC, it’s a Knock-out competition in the key stages and you’re only ever one bad refereeing decision or split second lack of concentration leading to a red card away from elimination. 

If the RFU want to make the game popular again and win back lost fans like one of my friends winning the 6N every year will do far more good than one WC every 4 years. 

[Robson9]

And for all this talk about him being such an amazing world cup coach with a master plan, he's been to two finals as head coach and lost them both.

[westwaleswasp]

There seems to be a bit of a "faith" in Eddie feel from some commentators. I've seen fellow commentators who I generally respect BTL in the Guardian who believe Jones really was holding something back.... If he was, then it was cutting it very late to expose what happening

People who were excusing poor 6Ns tournaments because "he's concentrating on the World Cup" were common. Given the reliance upon international games for income and the cost of tickets that's taking the piss in a big way...Just like several ex players noted - you really need to concentrate on the next game and stop making excuses for losses as "part of the plan".

The 2003 winners were based on a long plan - but that was signposted by SCW from the Tour of Hell to the 1999 RWC as part of focusing on '03. But at no time would he have made excuses for losing as part of the plan.

Jones is a more than decent short term coach who can take someone else's work and get a change but fails to build, and can focus on one game like Japan vs SA (who went through, eh!) England vs NZ.

But any coach who selects players after 5 Prem games and discards them, or selects them and drops them after they barely get a pass isn't a coach that is creating anything long lasting. Nor a coach trusted by players. That podcast on how frazzled players were coming off England duties said it all.

This x 10000

[westwaleswasp]

The whole "holding back for the WC" is balls because even if it is true, one dodgy reffing performance (e.g. NZ v Fra Joubert 2011 Final) in quarter vs a decent team and you are gone. One early red in a 1/4 and it is probably GG. It isn't worth sacrificing 4 years for an event where we make the semis on average and have been in 4 finals without always being good. Sacrificing the odd game here and there to try something different is not what Eddie was doing. He was sacrificing entire 6n, normally to do the same pig headed thing that had been shown to not work the year before. 2 fast threatening wingers, and open, blind and no 8, 2 locks, a full back, a 9 and a 10 that work, decide who you are playing off. It is not rocket science. Get the basics right and then worry about a ball playing 12 or centre combinations or not.

[baldpaul101]

Like all coaches there will be some players who found his methods worked for them & others that didn't.
Haskell has always said that Eddie was the best coach he's ever worked with & allowed him to play the best rugby of his career.
he has clearly been held in deep respect by a lot of people in the game.
Equally there have been plenty of stories of bullying, harassment & bad man management.
No coach will please everyone all the time.
IMO he should have gone last year, when the wheels started to come of performance wise.

The 2003 winners were based on a long plan - but that was signposted by SCW from the Tour of Hell to the 1999 RWC as part of focusing on '03. But at no time would he have made excuses for losing as part of the plan.

Woodward did exactly that when his teams blew Grand Slams. He actually said "Judge me on the world cup"

[mike909]

Ah well - rose tinted memories. But the point I was making - badly - was that whilst he was focused on the '03 RWC, he wasn't trying to suggest he had some covert plan that would be revealed at the RWC. And that's why they were losing games.

I agree he ought to have gone earlier. Personally, I'd have been very worried as his employer when the 2021 6Ns played out and we were outthought and made to look very silly indeed at times. Prob saved by the France win. When the 2022 6Ns repeated the problems - it was time to go and offer a new coach a tour, the AI's and the 6Ns

[westwaleswasp]

Like all coaches there will be some players who found his methods worked for them & others that didn't.
Haskell has always said that Eddie was the best coach he's ever worked with & allowed him to play the best rugby of his career.
he has clearly been held in deep respect by a lot of people in the game.
Equally there have been plenty of stories of bullying, harassment & bad man management.
No coach will please everyone all the time.
IMO he should have gone last year, when the wheels started to come of performance wise.

The 2003 winners were based on a long plan - but that was signposted by SCW from the Tour of Hell to the 1999 RWC as part of focusing on '03. But at no time would he have made excuses for losing as part of the plan.

Woodward did exactly that when his teams blew Grand Slams. He actually said "Judge me on the world cup"

I would accept Eddie blowing Grand Slams losing one key match per 6n. But scraping 5th and losing 2 or 3........SCW never did that in the run up to 03.
He also did do the Slam, to be fair.

[NellyWellyWaspy]

And what about him being appointed coach for the Barbarians ....

I cannot think of a team, other than Wasps, who would less benefit from his authoritarian 'do it my way' style of game management.

Has the world gone mad?

[hookender]

And what about him being appointed coach for the Barbarians ....

I cannot think of a team, other than Wasps, who would less benefit from his authoritarian 'do it my way' style of game management.

Has the world gone mad?

Liked Cipriani’s tweet about the appointment blowing his chances of getting picked for the Baa Baa’s