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Author Topic: A Good Wrapping Up of Current Situation  (Read 3841 times)

Neils

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Let me tell you something cucumber

Neils

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Re: A Good Wrapping Up of Current Situation
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2023, 12:35:41 PM »

Silence raises doubts over Wasps? future after relegation and leaves Championship rugby clubs in limbo
Clubs in rugby?s second tier are still awaiting a fixture schedule for next season, leaving them unable to sell tickets or secure sponsorship

If you are comfortable in chaos, the Championship is the league for you (Photo: Getty)

By Hugh Godwin
Rugby Union Correspondent
March 30, 2023 11:16 am
It is six weeks since the Rugby Football Union (RFU) declared Wasps would have a place in the Championship ? England?s second division ? but there has been no official word from the supposedly reconstituted club since then.

This has left the other Championship clubs in limbo, awaiting a fixture schedule for next season and, specifically, the guaranteed number of home matches.

An innovative ?hybrid? cup of matches between Championship and Premiership teams ? the likes of Coventry vs Northampton A, and Wasps vs Saracens A ? is on the cards, but not confirmed.


Meanwhile, the frustrated Championship leaders Ealing have explored getting out of the English system and into the URC as a London franchise, as they have again failed the criteria to be promoted to the ?Premiership. They have not ruled out legal action to overturn the Premiership decision.



If you are comfortable in chaos, the Championship is the league for you. Others might call it a mess. i has seen three draft fixture lists this week for next season, based on 12, 13 and 14 clubs in the Championship. This is because there are 12 teams currently, and no promotion or relegation with the Premiership, and one down, one up with National League One.

So it will stay at 12 if Wasps fail to take their place. It will become 13 if Wasps do enter the Championship, and the bottom club ? currently London Scottish ? accept relegation.

A London Scottish spokesperson told i they would do so if they cannot gain the requisite points on the pitch. However, other clubs believe a challenge to relegation would be understandable if Wasps are parachuted in. Hence, a possible 14.

Also in the draft schedules, the ?hybrid? Premiership-Championship cup is set to be played over five weeks in September and October, with a semi-final and final in February and March.

But Premiership and Championship clubs need to be selling season tickets and sponsorships now ? not wait until the summer when ?supporters? minds are elsewhere and rugby excitement subsides. Player recruitment is almost always ?complete by this time of year, too. On the horizon is talk of a second professional tier from 2024, a ?Premiership Two? of maybe 10 clubs, to go with 10 in the Premiership by then. Maybe.

Wasps fans on social media forums are wondering what is going on. Do they have a stadium in place? The former European champions earmarked the former Worcester Warriors ground at Sixways, but that is wrapped up in the Worcester ownership wrangles. It would feasibly be possible still for Wasps to muster a playing squad and coaches but, again, the silence is deafening.
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NellyWellyWaspy

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Re: A Good Wrapping Up of Current Situation
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2023, 12:42:57 PM »
https://inews.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/wasps-relegation-championship-rugby-clubs-2243032?ITO=newsnow

Atlas were obliged by contract to have fully completed the purchase and paid for the Sixways stadium and other assets they bought from the administrator of Warriors by Wednesday 31 March 2023.

I seriously doubt they are going to achieve this. Indeed, they might have already pulled out. They would lose their (7 figure) deposit if they do not complete.

At least, that was what I had understood.

For me, it is clear. Wasps are not moving forwards. I fully expect them to approach the RFU and ask for a one year delay. It is way too late to be signing players and coaches. It also highlights how impractical the RFU rules around Pheonix clubs are.

At the end of the day, it started because of money, and is likely not sorted for the same reason. If I was an 'investor', as in the case of Warriors, I would not want to be landed with the 'Rugby creditors'. I wouldn't mind betting that the Wasps Rugby creditors debt is way larger than envisaged. I would not be at all surprised to hear that the investors have backed out. The 'Rugby creditors' rule will, most likely, have killed the return of both clubs. On that basis, the Phoenix rules are dead in the water. Any club that goes bust is gone forever. Is that what the RFU wanted?

My guess is that is why Falcons are rumoured to be asking to be relegated, so they can sort out their finances over a longer period, without the burden of a Premiership sized wages bill.

Neils

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Re: A Good Wrapping Up of Current Situation
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2023, 12:43:13 PM »
You would think this piece should elicit some kind of response from Wasps (whatever that is) and the RFU.  Hopefully other news outlets will take it up  and dig a bit more. 
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coddy

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Re: A Good Wrapping Up of Current Situation
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2023, 12:46:16 PM »
The silence is indeed deafening, frustratingly so.

It nigh time we heard for definite if we are playing in the Championship next season and where our home stadium will be.

The players and coaches announcements I can wait for.

bigad82

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Re: A Good Wrapping Up of Current Situation
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2023, 01:28:45 PM »
I was always in the no news is good news camp.
Can only see Legends waiting for Altas  to go tits up and pick up Sixways.
I can not see any other reason for leaving it this long without saying anything.
Hope I'm wrong.

baldpaul101

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Re: A Good Wrapping Up of Current Situation
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2023, 01:29:40 PM »
Quote
However, other clubs believe a challenge to relegation would be understandable if Wasps are parachuted in.

I don't really understand this. Wasps are not being "Parachuted" anywhere, they have been relegated as per the PRL rules.
If the champ was always going to be one team getting relegated & one team coming up from Nat 1, why would the bottom club have any issue with being relegated? Am I missing something?



On a personal note, I'd rather London Scottish didn't get relegated as Wasps playing them would be one of the games I would probably attend!

Rossm

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Re: A Good Wrapping Up of Current Situation
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2023, 01:35:37 PM »
Quote
However, other clubs believe a challenge to relegation would be understandable if Wasps are parachuted in.

I don't really understand this. Wasps are not being "Parachuted" anywhere, they have been relegated as per the PRL rules.
If the champ was always going to be one team getting relegated & one team coming up from Nat 1, why would the bottom club have any issue with being relegated? Am I missing something?



On a personal note, I'd rather London Scottish didn't get relegated as Wasps playing them would be one of the games I would probably attend!

I used to play for London Scottish (not 1st XV) against Wasps so my loyalties would be split🙄
SLAVA UKRAINI!
HEROYAM SLAVA!

baldpaul101

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Re: A Good Wrapping Up of Current Situation
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2023, 01:44:18 PM »

There's another articleon Inews re Wasps plans from December
https://inews.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/wasps-rfc-plans-bounce-back-oblivion-2042696

but its behind their paywall, has anyone got access?

jamestaylor002

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Re: A Good Wrapping Up of Current Situation
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2023, 01:55:11 PM »
I am still hopeful and still stand by my original statement that I'd rather Wasps learned lessons of the past and only made public statements when announcing something that is true.

It does make things difficult as a fan and it is hard going without hearing anything for as long as we have but I guess we just have to sit back and wait because it's not like we have influence over proceedings.

BlackAndGoldSunglasses

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Re: A Good Wrapping Up of Current Situation
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2023, 01:56:37 PM »

There's another articleon Inews re Wasps plans from December
https://inews.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/wasps-rfc-plans-bounce-back-oblivion-2042696

but its behind their paywall, has anyone got access?

archive.ph is your friend :)

The first question to answer in the story of the rescue of Wasps is? why? Once the Rugby Football Union decided the six-time league champions and twice European Cup winners would be thrown out of the Premiership this season as punishment for going into administration, with ?95m of debt, why fight to keep the club alive as a professional entity?
The amateur Wasps FC continues to exist in west London, but the grand plan is to relaunch professional Wasps as a ?phoenix? club in the Championship next season.
?The impetus has come from all of the stakeholders,? says Andy Scott, the chief executive of the new company that has bought Wasps? brand and place in the league structure.
?Our fans have been incredibly supportive, and understanding, and ultimately the club belongs to nobody but them. It?s about creating a legacy for future fans, and I?m proud to call myself one, back from when I left the Army in the mid-1990s. It is exciting and I am honoured to be part of it.?
Key elements of the plan can be revealed or clarified here. The new ?plc-style? board comprises Scott; Dame Inga Beale, former chief executive of Lloyd?s of London; Simon Morris, chief creative officer worldwide at Amazon; Chris Braithwaite, former head of Apple?s global real-estate division, plus a financial director.
Scott and Braithwaite represent the influential Wasps Legends Charitable Foundation, who include ex-players Kenny Logan, Peter Scrivener and Mark Rigby, while former captain and director Lawrence Dallaglio is said by Scott to be ?not part of the core team but certainly aware of what we are doing?.
Four main steps in the rescue are: a stadium agreement to replace the CBS Arena in Coventry ? understood to be a ground-share with the 5,500-capacity Solihull Moors FC, although Scott would only confirm ?somewhere in the Midlands?; an obligation to pay rugby creditors; a squad of players, coaches and support staff to succeed those made redundant in October, when only the kitman Pudsey Bevan out of 168 employees was kept on; and an institutional investor, with one preferred party already identified.
The significance of this institutional investor is a move in English club rugby to wean itself off sugar daddies. This in turn is tied into a new rugby regulatory framework being worked on by the RFU and the Premiership for 2024 and beyond.

Christopher Holland, owner of the Wasps training ground in Warwickshire, put up ?150,000 to buy the Wasps brand, intellectual property and ?chattels? ? equipment lying unused in the gym, for instance ? and the Legends added working capital.
RFU funding for the Championship, to which Wasps would be relegated under the union?s regulations, is currently around ?100,000 per club. So, initially at least, this will be a leaner operation, and international stars including Joe Launchbury, Jack Willis and Dan Robson won?t be returning, while talks are under way with potential coaches.
Geographically, it makes sense to stay close to the training ground. ?We were in the Midlands before, and we still are,? says Scott, who has been CEO of 188Bet.
Some would like Wasps to return to their capital roots. ?To see Wasps come back to London would be awesome,? Phil Vickery, an eminent former prop, said recently, but added: ?Let?s focus on getting the club up and running? ? echoing a mood iterated by Scott.

Wasps legend Phil Vickery would love the club to return to its London roots (Photo: Getty)
?Just to be able to pull on a black-and-gold jersey on and run out on to a park anywhere is success,? Scott says.
But is a return to the Premiership the goal? ?We need to at least secure ourselves in the Championship at the end of the 2023-24 season,? says Scott.
?It?s a tough league. You?ve got the likes of Ealing, and Jersey, and our good friends over in Coventry, who are all doing incredibly well. It would be arrogant to think just by putting money into it, and creating a squad, we?d be promoted at the end of 23-24. It would be phenomenal if we find ourselves in that place. And depending on the institutional investor we land with, they may have more aggressive ambitions.
?We would love to have players who are known and loved by the fans. But we have to be sure we are bringing them back into an environment that is bullet-proof, financially. We cannot put anybody in the kind of situation we found ourselves in a few months ago. To do it once is unforgivable; to do it more than once would be morally obscene.?
Some are bound to be sceptical over Wasps disrupting the Premiership, writing off a pile of debt and then having their place taken by a club of the same name, albeit one rung down the league ladder.
Holland was a non-executive director of the old Wasps, but he has passed the RFU?s fit-and-proper process with ?a glowing report?, according to Scott, partly because he had no shareholding in the previous business.
Wasps Holdings Limited was the holding company that owned a subsidiary Arena Coventry Ltd, (ACL) which in turn owned Arena Coventry 2006 Limited and IEC Experience Limited.
ACL, AC06, and IEC are all separate legal entities with their own assets and liabilities, so when they were sold as pre-pack administrations to Mike Ashley?s Frasers Group last month, the proceeds could not go towards paying Wasps creditors.
The major creditors comprise the holders of Wasps? infamous retail bond at ?35.2m, DCMS (Sport England distributed the Government?s Covid survival loans on their behalf) at ?14m, HMRC at ?7m of unpaid tax, and former owner Derek Richardson at ?28m (through personal loans and another Wasps subsidiary, Canmango).
The bondholders and Richardson are ?secured creditors?, but they will be paid nothing, unless the 11 remaining Premiership (PRL) shareholder clubs purchase Wasps? P-share at ?9.8m.
At the same time, PRL is contesting how much of the current central distributions Wasps are entitled to receive, and how much Wasps owe it.
Meanwhile, the ?preferential creditors?, including former employees, and ?secondary preferential creditors?, including HMRC, are set to receive nothing.
Those arrangements fall under the financial law of the land ? however there are also sporting regulations, as administered by the RFU, which requires the new owners, Holland?s Halo22 company, to pay off ?rugby creditors? estimated to be around ?3.4m, and which includes the likes of Munster at ?9,000, and former players Brad Shields and Malakai Fekitoa at ?77,500 and ?115,000 respectively.
?We are going through that process to clarify what it encompasses and we are trying to do the right thing,? says Holland, and the RFU have oversight of this.
The Wasps academy has, for now, been taken under the wing of the RFU. ?Wasps women were a long way through being eased across from Wasps FC [the amateurs] to Wasps Holdings, as was, and clearly the administration event caused them huge amounts of trauma and upheaval,? says Scott.
?So they are central. The professional men, the women?s and the academy are all at the heart of what we see as the future of Wasps ? alongside a tight integration with the FC, the Wasps Legends, all of those Wasps family members under a closer umbrella.
?There is an absolute belief we can build a viable, resilient, profitable sports business on the back of Wasps that will be here for generations to come.
?We think we?ve got a world-class board, we really want to set the bar for how this is done under the new rugby framework agreement.
?We?ve got a huge, passionate fanbase out there that we need to mobilise and give some good news to ? but we?re very mindful we can?t create false hope.
?Once it?s all signed, with everything in place, that?s when I?ll crack open a bottle of champagne, but not before.?
« Last Edit: March 30, 2023, 02:01:40 PM by BlackAndGoldSunglasses »

baldpaul101

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Re: A Good Wrapping Up of Current Situation
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2023, 02:03:59 PM »
Thanks B&GS, some interesting stuff in there, even though its a few months old.

Andywasp50

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Re: A Good Wrapping Up of Current Situation
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2023, 11:02:43 PM »
My worry is that somewhere along the line there's always going to be people in the know and people involved, so a little leak of information is inevitable. That could be old players, potential players and coaches being approached, potential sponsors, potential employees, financials, structure etc, but there's been total silence.

If things are progressing positively, then it's an incredible feat for an expanding operation to maintain total radio silence.

I'm worried it's all gone pear shaped, especially with Oghre and Wolstenholme being announced as signing for Bristol today - they were a couple of players I thought might hold out and return for us.

Vespula Vulgaris

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Re: A Good Wrapping Up of Current Situation
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2023, 09:44:40 AM »
There is absolutely no reason for complete silence.

Maybe we have a deal on a ground that we aren't allowed to announce yet, but they could easily say that.

They could easily say they have signed players without naming them.

Do we have a kit to play in?

Do we have any sponsors?

Do we have any coaches?

They could easily create an atmosphere of excitement about the rebirth of the club so that they actually have some fans left when and if it happens.

So saying absolutely nothing means that either there is nothing to say, or that the people in charge have no idea about fan engagement. Or worse, just don't care.
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baldpaul101

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Re: A Good Wrapping Up of Current Situation
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2023, 12:33:31 PM »
Quote
There is absolutely no reason for complete silence.

Unless of course there are no players, no ground, no management & no sponsors.......