Baxter on the Beeb website

[Heathen]

Exeter director of rugby Rob Baxter says teams should not have their number of players on the pitch reduced if someone is given a red card...............

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/65261316

[Neils]

Prat

[WonkyWasp]

Idiot.(Not you Neils)

[baldpaul101]

Exeter director of rugby Rob Baxter says teams should not have their number of players on the pitch reduced if someone is given a red card

In classic journalistic fashion of course, thats not actually what he's saying.
He doesnt want to see games ruined by red cards for accidental offences that have gained a side no advantage. The Mercer & Steward cards are excellent examples of cards that have changed games. Exeter themselves would probably have gone out of the Euro cup to Montpellier if Mercer had stayed on the field or a replacement could have been subbed on after 10 minutes.
I am not convinced that the orange card ides will work but currently daft red cards are ruining high profile games without advancing player safety.

[MarleyWasp]

If opinions are like a***holes, then I've come to the conclusion that Rob Baxter's opinions are hemorrhoids - painful, unwanted, irritating and have a habit of coming back...

[bigad82]

Whenever he speaks all I hear is wibble.

[Skippy]

The English Campese? In other words any time rugby journalists want a quote they give a quick call to Baxter. My guess is that have his number filed under Quote-a-Gob. Or Twat.

[coddy]

He's seems to be saying, due to one or two red cards recently being later downgraded, the answer is not to have red cards at all.


Muppet

[WonkyWasp]

So you can go round belting hell out of anyone?  No naughty step?  No smacked hand?  Feel free to do what you like?

[Shugs]

Exeter director of rugby Rob Baxter says teams should not have their number of players on the pitch reduced if someone is given a red card

In classic journalistic fashion of course, thats not actually what he's saying.
He doesnt want to see games ruined by red cards for accidental offences that have gained a side no advantage. The Mercer & Steward cards are excellent examples of cards that have changed games. Exeter themselves would probably have gone out of the Euro cup to Montpellier if Mercer had stayed on the field or a replacement could have been subbed on after 10 minutes.
I am not convinced that the orange card ides will work but currently daft red cards are ruining high profile games without advancing player safety.

That does appear to be what he?s saying. But surely if the offence is accidental it shouldn?t be a red card anyway? The guy needs to focus on improving his side and just needs to roll out ?no comment? a bit more often.

[jamestaylor002]

What I hope Mr. Baxter is actually trying to say is that the issue is not the red card itself or the punishment that it carries and that the issue is the interpretation of head contact and the application of the framework developed by World Rugby takes a broad approach with no real consideration to the modern game and how it's played.

The red card must remain the ultimate sanction available to an official. Amending the definition and associated punishment of a red card, in my opinion, may improve the game as a spectacle but it does not have player welfare at the centre of it. A "new" red card would negatively impact the individual sent off but it wouldn't negatively impact the club, as they can go back to the full 15, so would mindsets really change? My answer is no.

[Bloke in North Dorset]

Looks like Baxter was prescient.

I turned the game on after we got back to be told that Chiefs were down to 13 men and were behind, one was a red card, so I didn't bother watching.

Having just watched the red card incident, and leaving who the messenger was aside, I think he has a point.  Ashton was being tackled by hog and on the ground sliding to the line. Woodburn dived in to try to get his hand under the ball and Ashton put a toe in touch so no try.

Its debatable whether Ashton would have gone in to touch anyway but as a result Woodburn was penalised for tackling a man on the ground,  penalty try and yellow card, but as he'd already had a yellow it became a red and Exeter spend most of the 2nd half a man down.

I don't know if it killed the game and by all accounts Chiefs were bad, but maybe in these circumstances bringing on someone else after 10 minutes might serve the game better. I'd certainly be aggrieved if it had happened to us.

As a separate issue classing that as tackling a man on the ground could also be debatable. How do you stop someone who dives for the line 5 or 10 meters out when its wet?

[andermt]

As a separate issue classing that as tackling a man on the ground could also be debatable. How do you stop someone who dives for the line 5 or 10 meters out when its wet?

Seen this commented on quite a bit on social media, which is also the only place I've seen the footage. Have to say I agree. Had Woodburn dived on top of Ashton I'd have had no issue with the yellow that became a red as the way some players, and Chiefs are one of the worst for this, dive on top of try scorers is dangerous and at times quite cowardly, we have seen players have to go off after a post try tackle.

In this case Woodburn slides in from the side to try and stop the try and get under the ball, and only ended up on top of Ashton as the tackle progressed.

Lots of people stating the laws which say you can't tackle a player on the ground, in a similar vein when a player is on the ground he should release the ball, the momentum thing is what allows players to slide in from a distance, especially in the wet. We could end up seeing players slide from 10m out as soon as they get close and all the defending team can do is stand there and let it happen.


Although, the fact it was Karl Dickson with the cards says a lot as well.

[Andywasp50]

It seems to me the more Chiefs fall away and lose players because Rowe isn't a bottomless pit of money, the more Gob Baxter whinges and find fault with the game. Could be the BBC see him as the voice of English rugby, but he's becoming boorish and perhaps desperate to keep his profile in the spotlight.

The implications for his comments on red cards are just what the game can't afford i.e. player gets sent off so you bring on a replacement - is it a like for like (back for back, forward for forward)? To do so means you need a full reserve team available for match day, given you have replacements that are assigned to be used tactically or that could get sent off themselves. That reserve team will have to be fully fit players with no suspensions, international call ups etc, so what kind of registered squad will you need - 70 odd players? How can you do that under the salary cap and where will these players come from.

Appreciate his point regarding a spectacle for the fans, but it could dilute the emphasis on player welfare, whilst at its cynical extreme, there's also the potential for exploitation should a a player like Markus Smith be taking a side apart in a big game - taking him out with a deliberate high tackle (or Chiefs style reckless diving in at a ruck) could level the game in favour of the offending side.

The real problem is that with TMO's you shouldn't end up with red cards being rescinded because they are there to make sure things are right first time around.

[Egret]

As a separate issue classing that as tackling a man on the ground could also be debatable. How do you stop someone who dives for the line 5 or 10 meters out when its wet?

Seen this commented on quite a bit on social media, which is also the only place I've seen the footage. Have to say I agree. Had Woodburn dived on top of Ashton I'd have had no issue with the yellow that became a red as the way some players, and Chiefs are one of the worst for this, dive on top of try scorers is dangerous and at times quite cowardly, we have seen players have to go off after a post try tackle.

In this case Woodburn slides in from the side to try and stop the try and get under the ball, and only ended up on top of Ashton as the tackle progressed.

Lots of people stating the laws which say you can't tackle a player on the ground, in a similar vein when a player is on the ground he should release the ball, the momentum thing is what allows players to slide in from a distance, especially in the wet. We could end up seeing players slide from 10m out as soon as they get close and all the defending team can do is stand there and let it happen.


Although, the fact it was Karl Dickson with the cards says a lot as well.

Don't see anything wrong with players sliding in from 10m. It's called playing the conditions and something teams should be able to adapt to like playing with/into a strong wind.