Wasps update February 2024

[Neils]

Coventry comments reported -

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/todays-rugby-news-fallen-english-28746693

And, just remember folks, Coventry never went bust and got demoted to the bottom most league. Oh, wait, they did go bust? Did they get kicked to the bottom? No. Short memories, people in glass houses.

Meritocracy my @r5e. Anywhere money is involved, there will be sharks and speakers of untruths.

Coventry entered administration, and were rescued a month later, paid off their rugby debts, retained their squad and were hit with a points deduction that relegated them.

Wasps went into administration, were relegated and were given opportunities to find alternative funding. They failed to do that.  They made every employee unemployed and wrapped up.  They were then given a considerable period of time to find alternative funding with a place in the championship open and waiting for them. They failed again. The club that once was is completely dead and has been for several years.

The situations are completely different. If coventry had not found their funding and gone out of existence they would have been forced to start from the bottom. If Wasps had found buyers and funding on the two separate occasions they were given opportunity to do so they'd be playing one division down from where they were when they went into administration, which is the same punishment dished out to coventry.

You seem to forget Wasps had finance arranged but the RFU would not meet the investors to give confidence that they would be supporting Prem 2. No confidence given and still that way. URC are at least welcoming at a high level.

[Robson9]

Coventry comments reported -

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/todays-rugby-news-fallen-english-28746693

And, just remember folks, Coventry never went bust and got demoted to the bottom most league. Oh, wait, they did go bust? Did they get kicked to the bottom? No. Short memories, people in glass houses.

Meritocracy my @r5e. Anywhere money is involved, there will be sharks and speakers of untruths.

Coventry entered administration, and were rescued a month later, paid off their rugby debts, retained their squad and were hit with a points deduction that relegated them.

Wasps went into administration, were relegated and were given opportunities to find alternative funding. They failed to do that.  They made every employee unemployed and wrapped up.  They were then given a considerable period of time to find alternative funding with a place in the championship open and waiting for them. They failed again. The club that once was is completely dead and has been for several years.

The situations are completely different. If coventry had not found their funding and gone out of existence they would have been forced to start from the bottom. If Wasps had found buyers and funding on the two separate occasions they were given opportunity to do so they'd be playing one division down from where they were when they went into administration, which is the same punishment dished out to coventry.

You seem to forget Wasps had finance arranged but the RFU would not meet the investors to give confidence that they would be supporting Prem 2. No confidence given and still that way. URC are at least welcoming at a high level.

Regardless of the detailed ins and outs of it, the fact is coventry were rescued a month later and never ceased to exist in the same way. So a comparison about them having to start from the bottom isn't applicable. They were never in the same situation as Wasps.

[HDAWG]

Coventry comments reported -

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/todays-rugby-news-fallen-english-28746693

And, just remember folks, Coventry never went bust and got demoted to the bottom most league. Oh, wait, they did go bust? Did they get kicked to the bottom? No. Short memories, people in glass houses.

Meritocracy my @r5e. Anywhere money is involved, there will be sharks and speakers of untruths.

Coventry entered administration, and were rescued a month later, paid off their rugby debts, retained their squad and were hit with a points deduction that relegated them.

Wasps went into administration, were relegated and were given opportunities to find alternative funding. They failed to do that.  They made every employee unemployed and wrapped up.  They were then given a considerable period of time to find alternative funding with a place in the championship open and waiting for them. They failed again. The club that once was is completely dead and has been for several years.

The situations are completely different. If coventry had not found their funding and gone out of existence they would have been forced to start from the bottom. If Wasps had found buyers and funding on the two separate occasions they were given opportunity to do so they'd be playing one division down from where they were when they went into administration, which is the same punishment dished out to coventry.

Completely agree.

[HDAWG]

Coventry comments reported -

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/todays-rugby-news-fallen-english-28746693

And, just remember folks, Coventry never went bust and got demoted to the bottom most league. Oh, wait, they did go bust? Did they get kicked to the bottom? No. Short memories, people in glass houses.

Meritocracy my @r5e. Anywhere money is involved, there will be sharks and speakers of untruths.

Coventry entered administration, and were rescued a month later, paid off their rugby debts, retained their squad and were hit with a points deduction that relegated them.

Wasps went into administration, were relegated and were given opportunities to find alternative funding. They failed to do that.  They made every employee unemployed and wrapped up.  They were then given a considerable period of time to find alternative funding with a place in the championship open and waiting for them. They failed again. The club that once was is completely dead and has been for several years.

The situations are completely different. If coventry had not found their funding and gone out of existence they would have been forced to start from the bottom. If Wasps had found buyers and funding on the two separate occasions they were given opportunity to do so they'd be playing one division down from where they were when they went into administration, which is the same punishment dished out to coventry.

You seem to forget Wasps had finance arranged but the RFU would not meet the investors to give confidence that they would be supporting Prem 2. No confidence given and still that way. URC are at least welcoming at a high level.

I find this hard to believe. From what I understand, Wasps ceased to exist after entering administration and not finding a a financial solution. We couldn't verify a alternative.

Unless there's evidence the RFU and/or Prem went out of their way to let our club going under, it's clear it is Wasps fault the we went into administration.

[HDAWG]

It's been a while since I've been here, and seeing the rumours etc. thought I'd throw my response to the rumours and reactions.

Honestly it doesn't feel right walking into the URC. It's not an English league and I don't understand why we should. It's a very weird league as is and I'd prefer to be in the Prem.

That said, we do not deserve to walk into the Prem. We ceased to exist and now we have this entitlement that we're too big not to be in the Prem? If we were why didn't we survive before?

We only deserve to be in the Prem after getting there from the bottom sustainably.

Also as you guys and gals may gather from my tone, I'm not sympathetic towards the club. In fact I blame the previous owners and management for how it went. Then again it was arguably an impossible situation etc. but I don't blame the RFU or the Prem.

Don't get me wrong, other clubs were vultures, somehow affording our players after fitting them into the previously lowered salary cap. That stuff was downright baffling how that stuff happened.

It all still feels so.... Unrealistic. I don't have confidence in the club currently and don't understand the entitlement. I want the club to return, but it is not entirely realistic how we're going about it.

[westwaleswasp]

It is impossible to go to the bottom and return when amateur Wasps existing that sphere already. Unless they want to. A separate amateur Wasps? Hmm

[westwaleswasp]

On Cov vs us, iirc we had a buyer if the P share had not been removed. Cov did not have that issue, so yes, it is different, but not because they cleared their debts, we never had the chance to do that as our prospective buyers scarpered when the PRL said no p share.

[baldpaul101]

Don't agree with some peoples view of history. Wasps went bust because of decision Wasps made. No one else.

I do agree that maybe things could have gone differently after they went bust if the RFU & PRL had a better plan for the future, but ultimately Wasps caused their own demise.
If Wasps are allowed to come back as franchise club in the mythical Prem2 then what will happen with the "Rugby Debts"? Weren't these a pre req for any return above level 11?
Other debts are gone because Wasps was a business that went bust. Like any other business that goes bust debts are written off or a percentage recovered from sale of assets.

As for the URC, I cannot see a Wasps side recruited between now & September being able to compete with even the Welsh sides. For some people that might be OK but I don't want to watch my team losing by 50 points to Leinsters B team or equivalent every week. Plus away games that will be a struggle to attend & no relegation or promotion? Not for me thanks

[Neils]

Don't agree with some peoples view of history. Wasps went bust because of decision Wasps made. No one else.

I do agree that maybe things could have gone differently after they went bust if the RFU & PRL had a better plan for the future, but ultimately Wasps caused their own demise.
If Wasps are allowed to come back as franchise club in the mythical Prem2 then what will happen with the "Rugby Debts"? Weren't these a pre req for any return above level 11?
Other debts are gone because Wasps was a business that went bust. Like any other business that goes bust debts are written off or a percentage recovered from sale of assets.

As for the URC, I cannot see a Wasps side recruited between now & September being able to compete with even the Welsh sides. For some people that might be OK but I don't want to watch my team losing by 50 points to Leinsters B team or equivalent every week. Plus away games that will be a struggle to attend & no relegation or promotion? Not for me thanks

It's 2025 they are aiming for I believe.

[baldpaul101]

It's 2025 they are aiming for I believe.

Not entirely sure whether that would make a difference IMO
Hiring a team to compete with what are essentially 50-60% international sides is going to be a challenge even with no salary cap. They would be starting a team from scratch in June/July to start playing in September. They wouldn't realistically get access to newly hired players before that. That's a big ask! I can't see them being competitive for several seasons.
Obviously not known at the moment how well off Wasps expect to be but will they be able to compete financially?

[JF]

If Wasps join the URC would England-qualified players be able to play for England?

[baldpaul101]

If Wasps join the URC would England-qualified players be able to play for England?

As it currently stands, no. As they would be playing in a league other than the prem.

[andermt]

Coventry comments reported -

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/todays-rugby-news-fallen-english-28746693

And, just remember folks, Coventry never went bust and got demoted to the bottom most league. Oh, wait, they did go bust? Did they get kicked to the bottom? No. Short memories, people in glass houses.

Meritocracy my @r5e. Anywhere money is involved, there will be sharks and speakers of untruths.

Coventry entered administration, and were rescued a month later, paid off their rugby debts, retained their squad and were hit with a points deduction that relegated them.

Wasps went into administration, were relegated and were given opportunities to find alternative funding. They failed to do that.  They made every employee unemployed and wrapped up.  They were then given a considerable period of time to find alternative funding with a place in the championship open and waiting for them. They failed again. The club that once was is completely dead and has been for several years.

The situations are completely different. If coventry had not found their funding and gone out of existence they would have been forced to start from the bottom. If Wasps had found buyers and funding on the two separate occasions they were given opportunity to do so they'd be playing one division down from where they were when they went into administration, which is the same punishment dished out to coventry.

Which one of Coventry Rugby's times going bust are your commenting on, I understand they have done it more than once?

Additionally, you are missing out a major point in the Wasps administration, that was the fact that people were clambering for Wasps to go to the bottom as soon as they entered administration, something that didn't happen to Coventry.
I also say that if it wasn't for Wasps coming to Coventry, Coventry RFU wouldn't be in the situation they are now. Their support increased after Wasps arrived, which has helped them to build. People also need to remember when Wasps arrived in Cov, Coventry RFC were in National League 1, not the Championship.
I've lived in Coventry for almost 35 years and I went to watch Cov at Coundon road a few times but stopped going as a casual fan as it was a terrible watch, and have actually never visited The Butts, and never will. Their attitude and glee at the demise of Wasps was completely unacceptable.

[RogerE]

I started supporting Wasps back in 1957, and continued to support them until the demise.

The team, at the time of the split to form the professional team, was completely different to the team that played when I started watching, as was the team at the time of the demise. However during that time there was evolution, new players came-in, other players left, but there was continuity.

Similarly even though there were four changes of location the team was the constant.

If the reformed Wasps manage to get started what is the actual continuity with the Wasps I supported?

I will probably equate them with MG cars. Although they share a name and badge, he current, Chinese, MG cars are no more related to the original MGs than the new Wasps will be to the Wasps teams I supported.

[NellyWellyWaspy]

I will probably equate them with MG cars. Although they share a name and badge, he current, Chinese, MG cars are no more related to the original MGs than the new Wasps will be to the Wasps teams I supported.

In the case of MG, that probably isn't a bad thing. Similarly, what made the final 'team' Wasps? It wasn't the ground, so that isn't at issue.

Oddly, it WAS the fans, sitting next to the same people week in and out. Moving such a long way to Kent, there is the possibility that many will know each other (by face if nothing else). But some, like me, will be missing except for the occasional away game that brings the match into travel range.

The back room staff? Lower down the order on the payscale, I doubt that they could afford to move to the South East. I doubt many who live around Coventry could make that move, property prices being what they are in Kent.

So, only the top staff, coaches, trainers maybe.

Players? Some might sign up. What level of skills and fitness would be needed, who knows? Likely a lower level than would be needed in the Premiership.

Too many variables. But, a hint of what Wasps is and were, a whiff? Yes, it will be there.