Sarries and the Cap

[W2APS]

I've been joking about Elliot and Jamie George running some sort of Wolfpack Coffee company. I wonder if he actually will be...

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[Raggs]

On top of the businesses the article mentioned players living in houses owned by Wray didn't it? Rent in London is not cheap, and living for free in a house would be worth another 40% since to earn that cash as salary to pay rent would be taxed.

[wasps]

I really think the outcome of all of this will be they Saracens (and other clubs with similar deals) have done nothing wrong, and will therefore face no sanctions.

I'm sure that their players "earn" more money by playing for Saracens then they would another club, but the means of those payments are likely not against any rules.


We'll likely see it brushed under the carpet again as what it will really highlight is that a salary cap is unenforceable unless everyone actually wants to adhere to it.


I have some sympathy for clubs that are struggling to compete in Europe due to premiership salary cap rules.
It's an unfair playing field at various different levels of professional rugby whether it's the Irish Union controlling their players, the French being able to pay whatever they want or any other variable that exists

[BG]

I have some sympathy for clubs that are struggling to compete in Europe due to premiership salary cap rules.
It's an unfair playing field at various different levels of professional rugby whether it's the Irish Union controlling their players, the French being able to pay whatever they want or any other variable that exists

I'm not completely convinced that the salary cap is the main reason (it doesn't help) behind EPL clubs performing badly in europe.

My feeling is that on the whole the standard of rugby in the EPL is average to poor. Whether that's down to ability and ambition (lack of) of coaching staff,  technical ability of players or even the way the EPL is referreed. Do the players in the EPL play too much competive rugby through the season.

I think the Salary Cap needs to stay even if its not 100% enforceable (apart from trying to create a level(ish) playing field its there to try and stop clubs spending themselves out of existence), hopefully the rules can be tightened to stop 3rd party benefits in kind but rich owners/clubs will always find ways to circumvent it.

My feeling is that nothing will happen to Sarries, as other clubs will be doing something similar but to a lesser extent but at least a lot of the wider rugby public have had their suspicions partly confirmed

[Raggs]

The Irish sides that do very well, are the sides who have large proportions of internationals. Playing international rugby makes you a better player. Picking between 12 sides makes that international experience more spread out. French teams often seem to have more internationals too (albeit not just French players).

I love the competitiveness of the premiership to be honest, and I'm not too upset for that to mean we don't have amazing european runs. I'd rather 20/22 great games or so a season, than better euro runs, but a more broken main league.

[Dgwasp]

Agreed, the cap is something which seems completely unenforceable.  However, the sport needs it because the amount of money being spent is currently nowhere near the money coming in and that gap is widening, even with clubs spending around the salary cap.  I see nothing changing, and the whole thing will just go quiet and clubs that want to play to the rules can and those that don't won't.  I just hope that doesn't lead to a two tier league with the haves and have nots.

Even if nothing does happen and someone says "well done sarries, you've found a loophole carry on" that doesn't exonerate them from willfully cheating the system and decreasing the value of the PRL. 

I do wonder how CVC view this given their significant investment in the PRL.

[mike909]

It probably is enforceable, as much as the rucking laws are - but as others say - it needs the cooperation and intent of all the clubs. If at the end of the day - as we are presuming - players are "additionally compensated" for services outside rugby - but only by an arrangement associated with the club or owner - then we really do have a two tier system already and one that is being rewarded it seems.

The only outcome of effectively "no" or "a two level" salary cap will be fewer competitive games to watch and potential for clubs to go bust and players being pressured to play the max number of games. Pro RU is fairly precarious at the best of times and with other issues like player welfare and especially concussion - we perhaps ought to be hoping for financial stability as a given.

[RBB]

Let's hope they don't put JPD in charge of the investigation, he will interpret the cap, the same way he does the rules - scant regard....and make it up.

[BG]

You couldn't make this up..

1st line

Saracens have had a proposal to expand the salary cap rejected by rival clubs

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-6790787/Saracens-fear-devastating-World-Cup-hit-team-clubs-reject-salary-cap-expansion-proposal.html

They're complaining that they will suffer most during the WC because of how many international players they have in their squad.. but I wonder how they managed to fit all  those international players into their squad..

hmm.. 

[Rossm]

The estate agents are becoming a bit of a joke.

[Westy68]

It seems to be starting to come out how they are enticing players without "breaking" the cap.

I wonder if Daly is on his way to being a company director now...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-6766973/Have-Saracens-broken-salary-cap-rules-Owner-Nigel-Wray-business-four-England-stars.html

What so they can buy more England internationals

[mike909]

The Mail article is interesting - the salary cap appears to need to include accommodation and holiday additions, but looking at the Wiggy9 Company, having over £800k "available to Directors" suggests very clearly how money over and above that intended to be limited by the Cap, can be "made available" to players - and a casual observation of the number of Internationals playing for Sarries suggests that it would be very hard to comply with the Cap by "usual means"

The key problem is that it not illegal for me as a super rich club owner, to pay, one way or another, a player for promotional duties at whatever rate I like. So long as appropriate tax is paid, its up to me if I think the arrangements are VFM or not.

But - its more than possible to regulate, if the rules are expanded to include such arrangements and signed up to. BUT it requires all the clubs to want to comply.

[Vespula Vulgaris]

BUT it requires all the clubs to want to comply.

And therein lies the only bit that actually matters.

[mike909]

BUT it requires all the clubs to want to comply.

And therein lies the only bit that actually matters.

Yep - and if they don't the Prem is in jeopardy as it needs a reasonably even playing field, if Sarries are enabled to be that much better by slight of hand financially, allegedly, then what's the point in putting out a strong team against them?

[RBB]

S'aracens lost the vote 8-1 — despite raising the issue that they 'might struggle to field competitive teams in the Premiership Rugby Cup'.

So now, I am puzzled....there are 13 clubs who make up the premiership (Irish being the 13th). So 4 clubs, must have abstained? I assume the 1 was Saracens voting for their own proposal, I find it slightly disturbing if 4 clubs did abstain, why do that? Hmmmmm. The saracens proposal was wrong to make IMO and saw to advantage them alone, and not for the greater good of rugby, and the wider development of the game and league structure.

I think the world's smallest violin is playing for Nigel Wray and his Galacticos right now.