Always a Wasp
General Category => Wasps Rugby Discussion => Topic started by: MarleyWasp on December 13, 2022, 03:12:49 PM
-
https://www.wasps.co.uk/news/news-1/
This has just appeared on the club website...
-
If its something, I hope its good news. I can't take the anticipation anymore!
-
At least it means somebody is playing with the website!!
-
Looks like someone is in the process of clearing out old data, but there's still lots up on the other pages.
At least it means someone is being paid or is volunteering to do something with the site. As Omniweb is an agency I guess they aren't doing out of the goodness of their hearts so it might be a good sign.
Nothing new on WhoIs, though:
Domain:wasps.co.uk
Registrar:Omniweb Ltd [Tag = OMNIWEB]
Registered On:1997-07-08
Expires On:2023-07-08
Updated On:2022-11-30
Status:Registered until expiry date.
Name Servers:ns0.cnm-uk.net
ns0.digital-ink.co.uk
-
Gordon Bennett ..... my ticker can't take much more of this! It's probably 'no news' anyway (but I hope I'm wrong).
-
I wasn't.
-
Looks like it is being built in Bootstrap, judging by the structure. I am not sure that the old site was.
If they wanted cheap, should have used WordPress (which is what I do support for).
-
If something does appear can we have a new thread please.
-
"Across the wires the electric message came: He is no better, he is much the same."
-
:) :) :D
-
Didn’t Pudsey say something about socials going live soon? When I hit the link in this thread it takes me to a page headed “donate”.……….which has some irony to it :)
-
Tweet from The Wasps Guy: "Things are starting to happen… 👀"
-
Looks like someone is in the process of clearing out old data, but there's still lots up on the other pages.
At least it means someone is being paid or is volunteering to do something with the site. As Omniweb is an agency I guess they aren't doing out of the goodness of their hearts so it might be a good sign.
Nothing new on WhoIs, though:
Domain:wasps.co.uk
Registrar:Omniweb Ltd [Tag = OMNIWEB]
Registered On:1997-07-08
Expires On:2023-07-08
Updated On:2022-11-30
Status:Registered until expiry date.
Name Servers:ns0.cnm-uk.net
ns0.digital-ink.co.uk
I don't know anything about omniweb, but the site was being hosted by a friend of mine's company. The administrators ensured they were paid in full to make sure the site didn't go down.
I guess that's hopeful?
-
Running code inspector on the site, and comparing it with historical version. It is still basically same code (no sign of Bootstrap, just JQuery).
Therefore whoever has amended the site must have done so with the help of the administrator to be able to access the structure and site-specific modules.
-
It's built in Umbraco, which makes me suspect my mate did more than the hosting as that's what his agency specialises in.
-
It's built in Umbraco, which makes me suspect my mate did more than the hosting as that's what his agency specialises in.
And Umbraco uses Bootstrap 2 as I recall. I thought I recognised Bootstrap classes in there. V2 is a very old version of Bootstrap though. I mean, they are on Bootstrap 5 now (released well over a year ago), and a quick look (just now) at their GitHub site shows clear signs of them getting ready to start the v6 project. My, how things move on so quickly.
-
It's built in Umbraco, which makes me suspect my mate did more than the hosting as that's what his agency specialises in.
And Umbraco uses Bootstrap 2 as I recall. I thought I recognised Bootstrap classes in there. V2 is a very old version of Bootstrap though. I mean, they are on Bootstrap 5 now (released well over a year ago), and a quick look (just now) at their GitHub site shows clear signs of them getting ready to start the v6 project. My, how things move on so quickly.
Umbraco has a few new iterations coming soon, I wonder if they'll stick with v2...
-
Are subtitles available for the last few posts?
-
The registered owner doesn't have to be the people who build and maintain the site, or the owner may have changed but not updated the registration.
-
JF,
When I hear/read something unintelligible, I invariably reply with one of the following :
"Half past six",
"Do thank your mother for the rhubarb"
or
" and if that doesn't work, you can always poke it down with a stick"
-
:D
-
Website lead page changed to an upside down Wasp and captioned “Stung……………but in recovery.
-
Think there may be news coming in next 24 hours or so.......hopefully.
-
Website lead page changed to an upside down Wasp and captioned “Stung……………but in recovery.
LOL. If you try to save the image, you will see it is named stunk, and not stung ....
-
Looks like a modern version of the Drunken Wasp!
-
I do hope you're right Colonel!
-
;)
-
Hopefully that wasp is jumping for joy and not suffering from an attack of Raid. Wouldn't it be wonderful if ..... if ........................ if ...............?
-
Surely they wouldn't be making these waves if there was nothing behind them? Maybe everything is signed and sealed in the background and all there is left to do is announce it to the world? We, obviously, wouldn't be privy to the goings on behind closed doors so there's every chance this is the case.
Yes, I'm letting my excitement get the better of me. Yes, I am leaving myself open to being disappointed again. Oh well.
-
Surely they wouldn't be making these waves if there was nothing behind them? Maybe everything is signed and sealed in the background and all there is left to do is announce it to the world? We, obviously, wouldn't be privy to the goings on behind closed doors so there's every chance this is the case.
Yes, I'm letting my excitement get the better of me. Yes, I am leaving myself open to being disappointed again. Oh well.
+1
-
Plus at least 2 more
-
Hoping that somebody isn't pulling something.
I do wish that with access to the site they had removed all the old stuff - eg teams and partners etc.- all of which are dead.
-
Hoping that somebody isn't pulling something.
I do wish that with access to the site they had removed all the old stuff - eg teams and partners etc.- all of which are dead.
I assume that without all the admin staff and little money to pay an agency website changes aren't as simple and fast as they used to be. Hence the blank news story recently. I suspect that was someone testing how to add a story.
-
Hoping that somebody isn't pulling something.
I do wish that with access to the site they had removed all the old stuff - eg teams and partners etc.- all of which are dead.
I assume that without all the admin staff and little money to pay an agency website changes aren't as simple and fast as they used to be. Hence the blank news story recently. I suspect that was someone testing how to add a story.
Agree with that. Just thought that anyone "neutral" viewing it might take it that certain entities / people were still on board and it is unfortunate.
-
Vodafone logo now gone from the front page.
Old sponsors page still exists though
-
Has there always been a donate page? Noticed that a moment ago.
-
For years.
-
From the DT
Worcester Warriors may be refused entry to next season’s Championship
RFU unhappy with prospective new owners who have, as yet, been unable to supply supply suitable evidence of business plan
Worcester Warriors are on the brink of being refused entry to next season’s Championship, with their prospective new owners and the Rugby Football Union at war over a rescue deal for the stricken club.
Telegraph Sport can also reveal that Wasps, who were also thrown out of the Premiership after being plunged into administration, are close to being allowed to re-enter the English rugby pyramid in the second tier following their own takeover.
But, unless there is a dramatic U-turn, the RFU’s board will meet on Thursday to rubber-stamp a recommendation by its Club Financial Viability Group (CFVG) not to permit Worcester to join them.
That follows what it can be revealed is an on-going row between Warriors’ prospective new owners, Atlas Worcester Warriors Rugby Club Ltd, and the RFU over strict conditions the latter had been seeking to impose on their rescue deal.
Telegraph Sport has been told the CFVG was not satisfied the information provided by the buyers, in particular relating to their financial position, demonstrated their ability to continue to fund the club and to deliver on their business plan, which includes significant development at the Sixways site.
The conditions imposed on the deal included an RFU veto over the disposal of land around the stadium, swift payment of rugby creditors, commitments to a women’s team and other key governance conditions.
Atlas, fronted by former Worcester chief executive Jim O’Toole and bankrolled by money from the United States, are said to be furious at the conditions being imposed and to have threatened legal action over any refusal to allow their entry into the Championship.
They were said to be committed to proceeding with the takeover of WRFC Trading Limited regardless, which would mean they would own the club and its assets but have no league to play in.
The approval of Wasps’ takeover was said to have been more straightforward, with the club having lost its own stadium, the Coventry Building Society Arena, when they were plunged into administration.
The ground was bought by Mike Ashley’s Frasers Group and the club have been in negotiations to become a tenant there.
-
Ooh not good for WW but for us positive way forward.
-
Worcester's prospective owners are claiming this is false on Twitter
-
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/14426733
Any significance?
-
Created on 18 Oct around the time we went into administration
-
Only one director whose occupation is solicitor.
-
This was commented on a little while ago. From memory it was a lawyers office or similar.
-
For years.
Shows how observant I am!
-
James. the only way out is to make a humungous ginormous donation for all those missed years!! :D
-
Only one director whose occupation is solicitor.
It doesn’t cost much to register a company. I guess someone, Wasps Legends?, wanted to make sure the name wasn’t grabbed by somebody else.
-
If anyone was wondering what James does.
Works for a Alexander & Co Solicitors whose main services property, disputes, landlord and tenant and licensing.
-
That donate button resolves back to the main page.
-
James. the only way out is to make a humungous ginormous donation for all those missed years!! :D
Oh, alright then haha!
-
https://twitter.com/WaspsRugbyNews/status/1603403613434515461
-
Worcester bidders respond -
Worcester Warriors: Atlas claim RFU conditions for deal 'unreasonable' - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/63991126
-
The cynic in me wonders if Worcester'sappearance at the DCMS hearing has resulted in BillSweeny (just noticed that those initials are appropriately BS) being vindictive.
Oh no - I'm becoming a conspiracy theorist.!!
I really hope that Worcester, like Wasps. succeed in getting back into the top flight and look forward to a trip to Sixways, which happens to be en route for me to Coventry. From what I have seen the demands of the RFU on Worcester would make sense if the same were demanded on all top flight clubs, but not if only on "new" clubs.
Still regret that the DCMS hearing did not mention that financial transparency was an obvious requirement several years ago (Sarries), not just recently, and was further and earlier evidence of, "sleeping on the job" by RFU/PRL.
-
This is guy. Some rugby connections.
-
Felicity Kvesic (what a lady she seems to be, all power to her), has posted a series of tweets:
https://twitter.com/FelicityKvesic/status/1603392931955703813
-
Felicity Kvesic (what a lady she seems to be, all power to her), has posted a series of tweets:
https://twitter.com/FelicityKvesic/status/1603392931955703813
Steve Diamond comes charging in on his trusty steed.
-
If the Legends are negotiating to play at the CBSA next season what can we infer from that and Mike Ashley serving notice on CCFC.
AISI there’s 2 possibilities:
1. It just a move to shake more money and better terms out of CCFC or
2. Given the much shorter rugby season he’s happy to have a bit of revenue from a rugby club and then be able to use the stadium for other gigs all summer. Rugby would also be more flexible on fixtures, maybe allowing the first and last games of the season to be away games to extend the concert season? Although playoffs might be a problem.
-
Felicity Kvesic (what a lady she seems to be, all power to her), has posted a series of tweets:
https://twitter.com/FelicityKvesic/status/1603392931955703813
Steve Diamond comes charging in on his trusty steed.
Says he: I Can confirm that Adam Hewitt and I are fully committed to bringing Worcester Warriors back to the Premiership. We have the plan and the funding. Give us the opportunity. We Will give you the rugby. Bring it on!
-
I know that this is by no means done and dusted but it seems to be really good news for Wasps. So far. I shall go to sleep tonight a happy bunny. Thank you Riggers and Legends et al.
-
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/dec/15/worcesters-hopes-of-resurrection-at-elite-level-at-risk-due-to-rfu-demands
-
Interesting. Feel for Wuss. It does suggest our financial backing is fairly robust - which is good. Although I do hope it’s a business model rather than ongoing influxes of cash. We were correct to try and buck the trend of survival via sugar daddy and have suffered for it. But for the future of the game it’s still the direction things must move towards.
-
Interesting. Feel for Wuss. It does suggest our financial backing is fairly robust - which is good. Although I do hope it’s a business model rather than ongoing influxes of cash. We were correct to try and buck the trend of survival via sugar daddy and have suffered for it. But for the future of the game it’s still the direction things must move towards.
I agree.
I've been thinking about that relaunch statement in another thread and the various utterances of the RFU and PRL throughout all this drama and fiasco and not once have they talked about fans, entertainment and how to grow the club fan base and how to build a solid brand.
They could argue that fans are implied when you talk about investors as fans are needed to pay a return, but its not necessarily the same fan base. If all they are going to do is build a game that designed for entertaining fickle TV audiences it could be quite a turn off for rugby fans who support their clubs and the game through thick and thin.
I don't know the solution, but if they're not talking about it they probably aren't looking for one.
-
Plus 1
-
Whilst this news is positive for us, I have some reservations.
A few years ago, on the old Wasp website message board, inhabited by a couple here, and people like Becks, etc. from DW, I wrote on what would have been my last entry, 'what happens if we succeed?'. If we became a massive business and bring them in, what happens to Bath, Bristol, Sarries, Saints etc. We can't all be top dogs, and to be top dogs the spend will just go up until rich profit making clubs like Saints (who made money then and had been successful recently with a turgid brand of rugby) start losing money. In the end it was us and Worcs, and maybe down the line one of the other smaller clubs, but it could have been anyone if the sugar daddy ego is big enough, or in the cancerous Wray's case, corrupt enough.
My new question is similar.
What happens if we do relaunch successfully and it all goes to plan off the field. If we don't get back into the prem in 2-3 years? If we don't get a ground move? I don't think Wasps can last long term in the championship, unless the new model works with 2k crowds after 18 months if we are mid table. I am sure we will get fans into the stadium at the start. The highest Ricoh attendances are for our club rugby not CCFC's. But fast forward and 10k in a 32 k stadium was a bit miserable in the prem and unsustainable long term. What is that going to be in the championship? Without the team on TV, might those in the SE at say 100 miles away, just not turn up and lose the connection to the club. Morning all won't mean much if it is a bunch of guys you can only see on a 200 mile round trip. That isn't commitment needed, it is a lot of cash in petrol.
If there is a plan to make the championship more than it is, the French model, isn't it in PRL interests still to find reasons to not relegate? The old primacy of ownership clause is still about. PRL don't want Ealing up. I get the feeling that if they want us it is to make the championship more attractive, which means we have to stay there. And, to be frank, that won't work unless we have a rugby ground that we own.
-
Ashley has already done a deal to let CCFC play at the CBS for the rest of this season. SISU obliviously need a bit of their own business tactics perpetrated on them before taking him seriously.
I would suspect they will agree anew long term deal, so no reason why he shouldn't also let Wasps play there.
Not sure what a championship crowd is going to look like rattling around in a 30k stadium though...
Fingers crossed for more good news.
The Warriors situation sounds like the RFU want more over sight of club operations than the new owners are happy with. I wonder if that's related to the money coming form the US ?
Felicity Kvesic (what a lady she seems to be, all power to her)
I believe she is an investigative journalist as well as being Mrs Kvesic
-
From the Warriors statement:
"Since entering into exclusivity with the administrators, we have sought to work collaboratively with the RFU with a view to Worcester Warriors re-entering the Championship for the 2023-24 season.
"Unfortunately, it has not been possible to reach a market or institutionally acceptable, commercially viable proposition with the RFU.
"The position being taken by the RFU gives, in our view, too much control and oversight to the RFU and such control and oversight is over and above what we consider is reasonable and appropriate in the circumstances."
O'Toole and business partner James Sandford, who are backed by US investment, were given exclusivity ahead of several rival bids, one spearheaded by ex-Warriors boss Steve Diamond.
However, they say they cannot accept terms which "hinder any commercial business that is needed to support elite men's and women's' rugby".
The statement adds: "As a result, should the RFU not find the flexibility to remove the over-onerous terms they are seeking to impose on Atlas, we will have no alternative but to conclude the deal with Begbies without the approval of the RFU and without returning elite level rugby to Worcester."
The final sentence is critical, "if the RFU won't agree to the deal we'll go ahead anyway", not sure how that could work as without RFU approval surely they can't play in any league?
-
I have real doubts about the viability of remaining at the CBS in the Championship.
When Wasps first made the move, Coventry were in National 1, and a reasonable case could be (was) made that there was a local appetite for Premiership rugby that Wasps could satisfy and attract crowds big enough to justify (if not actually fill) a 32k stadium.
Now Coventry have moved up and Wasps down, both now find themselves in the Championship competing for a slice of the same fairly meagre pie, with Coventry having an established local history and a ground that is appropriate to that level. Wasps are no longer the biggest show in town, and a couple of thousand in the CBS is not going to make for much of a match day experience, or for that matter any kind of financial benefit. The financial benefits of the Ricoh (as was) are gone as it is no longer ours and never will be again
The EPIC remains an important tie to the area, and is surely key to any future, so that limits the geography of where we go, but I feel we should now be looking somewhere other than Coventry.
-
Whilst I agree that the CBS is no longer any kind of money earner, it is also no longer a drain on resources & time/effort which it surely became over the time Wasps have been in Cov.
If Wasps just have to pay a rent, its much easier to plan & budget for.
-
Agree with that. The viability of the stadium is now someone else’s concern. Given the amounts we were losing there it will be easier to make a profit as a tenant. I imagine it will be a one stand open scenario but I can’t see any reason why it shouldn’t work for us.
-
The drip feed of slow information and rumour is killing me... looking forward to some certainty and planning for next season.
Isn't it a stipulation of phoenixing into the Champ that we have to play at the same ground as before for three years? Agree that reduced level crowds in the CBSA will not be the matchday experience one would want, but for three seasons it might have to do.
Who knows, we might be back in the Prem in three years. Depending on what the league structure all looks like by then!
-
I am sure that the 'consortium' will have done all the numbers and demonstrated due financial prudence to the RFU.
My big concern is the alienation of bondholders who will lose serious money. Many will have supported Wasps for a very long time.
-
Isn't it a stipulation of phoenixing into the Champ that we have to play at the same ground as before for three years?
I believe so yes. But you would expect some room for flexibility as long as no one elses territory was infringed upon.
Apparentlythe RFU board will be meeting to discuss this matter on Friday so we may hear some more today...
-
I am sure that the 'consortium' will have done all the numbers and demonstrated due financial prudence to the RFU.
My big concern is the alienation of bondholders who will lose serious money. Many will have supported Wasps for a very long time.
Never gamble with money you can't afford to lose.
-
Agree with that. The viability of the stadium is now someone else’s concern. Given the amounts we were losing there it will be easier to make a profit as a tenant. I imagine it will be a one stand open scenario but I can’t see any reason why it shouldn’t work for us.
Hang on....
8 years ago, Stadium ownership was the only way to be viable and was the cornerstone of the business case to move to Coventry. Now it's an onerous drain on resources and it will be easier to turn a profit as a tenant.
So which is it?
-
I'm a bondholder, and to be honest I only invested as much as I was willing to lose should it all go wrong. So that is the least of my worries.
I'm concerned that there has been no transparency to the process so far. There is no thought of the fans in the decisions that have obviously been made. I don't want to support a team that doesn't care for me and my fellow fans.
I'm concerned that the new Wasps won't actually be anything like the old Wasps. yes it'll be the same logo on the same sort of shirt, but I've followed players from their academy days to retirement and beyond. How will a new club maintain this? And if it isn't the old club why bother supporting them?
I'm concerned about us staying in Coventry. In all honesty I'm not going to spend a penny of my money in Coventry again. We've spent 8 years dealing with the bile, the abuse, and the insults from large numbers of people there, and the only thing that made driving for hours attractive was that it was our home. It isn't any more.
I'm concerned that even if I find I really want to follow the club I won't be able to. No TV coverage and only social media and here to get updates.
I'm also concerned that we might end up back in the premiership. I am deeply angry at the way PRL have treated us and Wuss and I'll be damned before I do anything that might support those bunch of money grabbing, conniving parasites.
-
Agree with that. The viability of the stadium is now someone else’s concern. Given the amounts we were losing there it will be easier to make a profit as a tenant. I imagine it will be a one stand open scenario but I can’t see any reason why it shouldn’t work for us.
Hang on....
8 years ago, Stadium ownership was the only way to be viable and was the cornerstone of the business case to move to Coventry. Now it's an onerous drain on resources and it will be easier to turn a profit as a tenant.
So which is it?
It is entirely possible both statements are true.
-
all the aggravation with CCFC, Sisu, the council & teh locals must have been both a financial & a morale drain since moving surely?
-
Agree with that. The viability of the stadium is now someone else’s concern. Given the amounts we were losing there it will be easier to make a profit as a tenant. I imagine it will be a one stand open scenario but I can’t see any reason why it shouldn’t work for us.
Hang on....
8 years ago, Stadium ownership was the only way to be viable and was the cornerstone of the business case to move to Coventry. Now it's an onerous drain on resources and it will be easier to turn a profit as a tenant.
So which is it?
It’s far more nuanced than that. The move to Coventry and the general principle behind it made absolute sense. But a myriad of factors have made it fail. We now need to get a foothold in terms of existing which initial tenancy at the CBSA will hopefully give us.
-
do not think having two championship teams in Coventry is a bad thing for the next few years. look at football and the biggest games are the local derby's
i would be looking forward to home and away with large gate's that would help both Coventry and wasps.
the fan base for both clubs is not the same
-
Just seen this posted on twitter by an account called @paw_1977:
Incoming Cov RFC & Wasps news this afternoon in something I didn’t see happening. A positive step but just watch the fewm of the usual few 🥱
Bigger picture is great news for a whole host of reasons so excellent news all round ❤️
-
Also on twitter, via Chris Jones (@chrisjonespress):
RFU said “The RFU Board concluded that the application for Wasps was approved subject to a number of specific conditions being met and that it would continue to work with the bidders through the satisfaction of those conditions over the coming weeks. “
-
https://twitter.com/chrisjonespress/status/1603718577252696066
Breaking News! Wasps consortium approved by RFU and for Championship Rugby next year.
-
Incoming Cov RFC & Wasps news this afternoon in something I didn’t see happening. A positive step
Interesting, some kid of merge perhaps? Ground share sounds unlikely if the comments re playing at the CBS have been correct?
-
Incoming Cov RFC & Wasps news this afternoon in something I didn’t see happening. A positive step
Interesting, some kid of merge perhaps? Ground share sounds unlikely if the comments re playing at the CBS have been correct?
Yeah, difficult to think what else it might be? Wait and see, I guess!
-
I'm loving all the positive noises coming out, slightly worried that wasps seem to be signing up to the onerous RFU controls that Worcester won't.
Also, nothing against the Coventry majority, but I'm fed up with the vocal minority and don't want to go back there. Also, if SISU were 'awkward', look forward to dealing with Mike Cashley!
Intrigued what the Cov RFC news is ... seems like it will upset the short-sighted, but good news for the 'big picture'?
-
I'm thinking a short term ground share maybe. Excellent for Sharp bringing in extra cash on fallow weeks.
-
If you listen very carefully you can hear RFU committee members crying into their caviar at having failed to find sufficient grounds to reject our takeover too...
-
If you listen very carefully you can hear RFU committee members crying into their caviar at having failed to find sufficient grounds to reject our takeover too...
;D ;D ;D
-
Apparently BBC sport are showing championship rugby next year.
Edited to say:
Saw it stated somewhere but not seen anything official after a search so may only be a rumour.
-
RFU rejects Worcester plan for league return, but approves Wasps application - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/64002072
-
I'd live with groundshare - merger definitely NO.
-
slightly worried that wasps seem to be signing up to the onerous RFU controls that Worcester won't.
But surely this is the exact due diligence fans have been asking the RFU & PRL for? You can't complain when they try & make sure only fit & proper owners take charge going forward?
-
The remaining conditions could be things like paying certain creditors in full, stuff that the Legends would have, quiet understandably, been waiting for this approval before processing.
-
So when can we expect the lowdown on who the new owners are????
-
slightly worried that wasps seem to be signing up to the onerous RFU controls that Worcester won't.
But surely this is the exact due diligence fans have been asking the RFU & PRL for? You can't complain when they try & make sure only fit & proper owners take charge going forward?
+1
-
So when can we expect the lowdown on who the new owners are????
It was Wasps Legends who were approved. Looking at their website tells you who is broadly involved. There will undoubtedly be backers rumoured to include Chris Holland but not DR.
-
slightly worried that wasps seem to be signing up to the onerous RFU controls that Worcester won't.
But surely this is the exact due diligence fans have been asking the RFU & PRL for? You can't complain when they try & make sure only fit & proper owners take charge going forward?
Of course. I'm not complaining. Maybe I wouldn't worry if I knew what they were, but the Twitter thread earlier implies things that seem beyond a governing body role.
-
There is a sad irony for Wuss that these more stringent ownership suitability tests are in place almost entirely due to the 2 chancers who sent them to the wall in the first place. I am not without frustration in DR's direction, but I still believe his intentions were honourable, however misguided hindsight might prove them to be, and chances are he would still be seen as a fit and proper owner by today's standards if his takeover were playing out now.
I know everyone's instinct is quite understandably to paint the RFU as the bad guys in this, but the identity of the American backers behind O'Toole's bid remains somewhat opaque, and reportedly NDAs involved that may prevent the RFU from seeing as full a picture as they would like. Of course it may equally be the case that the RFU value the Wasps brand as more important to their product going forward, while Worcester are seen as more dispensable, so the RFU adjust their rules to suit. With so many shady deals being struck by even shadier individuals, it is impossible to separate fact from fiction in this whole sorry saga.
-
There is a sad irony for Wuss that these more stringent ownership suitability tests are in place almost entirely due to the 2 chancers who sent them to the wall in the first place. I am not without frustration in DR's direction, but I still believe his intentions were honourable, however misguided hindsight might prove them to be, and chances are he would still be seen as a fit and proper owner by today's standards if his takeover were playing out now.
I know everyone's instinct is quite understandably to paint the RFU as the bad guys in this, but the identity of the American backers behind O'Toole's bid remains somewhat opaque, and reportedly NDAs involved that may prevent the RFU from seeing as full a picture as they would like. Of course it may equally be the case that the RFU value the Wasps brand as more important to their product going forward, while Worcester are seen as more dispensable, so the RFU adjust their rules to suit. With so many shady deals being struck by even shadier individuals, it is impossible to separate fact from fiction in this whole sorry saga.
I appreciate I might be taking this out of context but this would be really sad if this was the case. To us "proper" rugby fans who don't get caught up in the fandom of Saracens, or only follow rugby during the 6N (I'm not saying you're on of those DGP), I'd argue that Worcester add a lot of value and are a proper rugby club with a strong history like us.
Sadly, the RFU may not see it that way
-
I have real doubts about the viability of remaining at the CBS in the Championship.
When Wasps first made the move, Coventry were in National 1, and a reasonable case could be (was) made that there was a local appetite for Premiership rugby that Wasps could satisfy and attract crowds big enough to justify (if not actually fill) a 32k stadium.
Now Coventry have moved up and Wasps down, both now find themselves in the Championship competing for a slice of the same fairly meagre pie, with Coventry having an established local history and a ground that is appropriate to that level. Wasps are no longer the biggest show in town, and a couple of thousand in the CBS is not going to make for much of a match day experience, or for that matter any kind of financial benefit. The financial benefits of the Ricoh (as was) are gone as it is no longer ours and never will be again
The EPIC remains an important tie to the area, and is surely key to any future, so that limits the geography of where we go, but I feel we should now be looking somewhere other than Coventry.
The RFU have already agreed that we could have elected to stay in the local area, in a different stadium if needs be. The consortium buying Wasps will have factored in the 3 years of rent as a fixed overhead of buying the club. We had a debate as to where Wasps could go, and no alternatives were available. The PRL asks for a 10,000 capacity ground, so that too is a limiting factor.
There is only one ground currently going ahead, with that exact capacity, as a Community Ground, and that is the one proposed by Warwick District Council. It is proposed to be home to Leamington Brakes FC (who were once Lockheed Brakes, the factory side for AP Lockheed (who I used to once work for). For the F1 fans, the only real part still left of them is AP Racing, but not on that site any longer.
The CBS Arena is a 40 minute drive (25 miles). This new ground is around half that distance/time away. Most of the old squad lived within 'walking distance' of this new ground.
If it all gets going, I would not be surprised to see Wasps getting involved in this new ground, early enough to allow the pitch and stands to be more suited to rugby.
-
Confirmed by wasps we are to return to the champ next season!! I saw it on Facebook but I did see a link - probably to the website
-
Can't do links on phone, it's on the Beeb website.
-
slightly worried that wasps seem to be signing up to the onerous RFU controls that Worcester won't.
But surely this is the exact due diligence fans have been asking the RFU & PRL for? You can't complain when they try & make sure only fit & proper owners take charge going forward?
+1
Another +1
My concern is that those carrying out the checks are in themselves fit & proper and that the requirements and process are transparent, whilst acknowledging commercial confidentiality.
Let’s face it, the so called guardians of the game haven’t covered themselves in glory in the past.
-
I have real doubts about the viability of remaining at the CBS in the Championship.
When Wasps first made the move, Coventry were in National 1, and a reasonable case could be (was) made that there was a local appetite for Premiership rugby that Wasps could satisfy and attract crowds big enough to justify (if not actually fill) a 32k stadium.
Now Coventry have moved up and Wasps down, both now find themselves in the Championship competing for a slice of the same fairly meagre pie, with Coventry having an established local history and a ground that is appropriate to that level. Wasps are no longer the biggest show in town, and a couple of thousand in the CBS is not going to make for much of a match day experience, or for that matter any kind of financial benefit. The financial benefits of the Ricoh (as was) are gone as it is no longer ours and never will be again
The EPIC remains an important tie to the area, and is surely key to any future, so that limits the geography of where we go, but I feel we should now be looking somewhere other than Coventry.
The RFU have already agreed that we could have elected to stay in the local area, in a different stadium if needs be. The consortium buying Wasps will have factored in the 3 years of rent as a fixed overhead of buying the club. We had a debate as to where Wasps could go, and no alternatives were available. The PRL asks for a 10,000 capacity ground, so that too is a limiting factor.
There is only one ground currently going ahead, with that exact capacity, as a Community Ground, and that is the one proposed by Warwick District Council. It is proposed to be home to Leamington Brakes FC (who were once Lockheed Brakes, the factory side for AP Lockheed (who I used to once work for). For the F1 fans, the only real part still left of them is AP Racing, but not on that site any longer.
The CBS Arena is a 40 minute drive (25 miles). This new ground is around half that distance/time away. Most of the old squad lived within 'walking distance' of this new ground.
If it all gets going, I would not be surprised to see Wasps getting involved in this new ground, early enough to allow the pitch and stands to be more suited to rugby.
It may be that the RFU have agreed to a ground move away from the CBSA, the WL Group have put forward options (one seems to possibly be a share with CRFC if today's rumours are true) and the RFU have agreed to work with the buyers to make it happen. Another work through may be the eventual need for a larger stadium in the future (remember last week NO PRL team hit the 10K attendance and Exeter v Nizaam looks way undercooked tomorrow).
-
Official statement on the Wasps site: https://www.wasps.co.uk/news/wasps-confirm-return-for-202324-season/
Wasps are delighted to announce their return for the 2023/24 season, with confirmation they have now fully satisfied Rugby Football Union (RFU) requirements.
HALO22 Limited, a company owned by Christopher Holland, recently completed the purchase of the intellectual property, history and memorabilia of Wasps RFC, a transaction that saw the Club exit administration.
Andy Scott, a former CEO of 188Bet and Interim CEO of the Wasps Legends Charitable Foundation, has been appointed as Chief Executive Officer, and will be supported by former players including Kenny Logan and Peter Scrivener, as well as a new main board of senior level executives.
With the formal transfer of assets complete, the new management group submitted a long-term business plan and were approved under the RFU’s fit and proper persons test. Following this, the Wasps Men’s team can now confirm they will start the 2023/24 season in the Championship, English Rugby’s second tier.
As part of proposals accepted by the sport’s governing body, a groundshare agreement has been reached with a Midlands venue – which will be announced in the near future – to host its home games.
Andy Scott commented: “We are proud and delighted to secure the future of this great Club. Wasps is a famous and highly regarded name in the history of English and European rugby and while this is a new venture and a fresh start, it is fundamentally built on the same values that brought the Club success and respect in its heyday.”
Christopher Holland, the Club’s new owner, said: “As the new custodian of Wasps, I am fully aware of the responsibilities I have to its supporters, history and heritage. I do not underestimate that duty.
“Even though it has been an extremely challenging time for everybody connected with the Club, today’s decision is a reward for the hard work undertaken to date, and means we can now start planning for the future.
“There is, however, a long road ahead of us. In addition to fulfilling the obligations to rugby creditors as set out in regulation five by the RFU, we continue our conversations with investors to improve the funding we have acquired to date.
“We are diligently creating a viable long-term business model for the Club, and we have had to meet rightfully stringent and modern business requirements for regulatory control and corporate governance. The RFU and PRL have been a supportive partner during the process.
“I would like to place on record my thanks to all of our fans and partners, the wider rugby community, and all former players and staff. The support we have received has been incredible.”
-
As part of proposals accepted by the sport’s governing body, a groundshare agreement has been reached with a Midlands venue – which will be announced in the near future – to host its home games.
Could be the CBSA, could be the BPA (likely given the earlier tweet), could be elsewhere!
-
Well - after the crappiest of days yesterday - that has put a little smile on my face.
Really needed that.
-
Could it be Sixways?
-
Could it be Sixways?
That wouldn't be a 'groundshare', would it?
-
Could it be Sixways?
Depends - only if we are sharing it with a Worcester who are coming back to the championship with us.
Otherwise, I hope not. We've pissed enough people off in the West Midlands ;D
-
Could it be Sixways?
No. That is wrapped up in the WW debacle.
-
While there is still a lot to do before anyone runs out for a game in a Wasps shirt for a championship game I massively relieved that its got even this far.
thank you to everyone involved so far!
-
Could it be Sixways?
That wouldn't be a 'groundshare', would it?
It could be as it would still be a share with a low level Worcester or with their junior teams etc. Unlikely though, I'll admit.
Wherever we're playing, II'm happy this afternoom
-
Fantastic news. Great to see Kenny and Scrivs involved as well.
On the stadium front, it does feel like it will be at BPA, at least for now. I wonder if, in the event of promotion, there would be an option to move to the CBS. Longer-term, a move to a ground share (and partnership) with WDC's Community Ground could still make the most sense.
-
Telegraph article linking us to a move to Solihull - anyone have access?
-
Wasps quit Coventry for... Solihull
Damson Park, the home of Solihull Moors Football Club, is close to being announced as Wasps’ new ground
Wasps will quit Coventry and plan to move to Solihull after being parachuted into next season’s Championship.
Telegraph Sport can reveal the former European champions’ new owners have chosen to relocate after holding initial talks with Mike Ashley’s Frasers Group, which bought the Coventry Building Society Arena when the club were plunged into administration.
Damson Park, the home of Solihull Moors Football Club, is close to being announced as Wasps’ new ground as they bid to make an immediate return to the Premiership after being thrown out over their financial collapse.
With a capacity of 5,500, it is almost six times smaller than the CBS Arena but would arguably be better suited to the club’s current circumstances.
Telegraph Sport has been told the Rugby Football Union has agreed to waive a regulation that would have forced Wasps to remain in Coventry for three years given they do not own or control their own ground.
Wasps, founded and based in London for most of their 156-year history, made the controversial move to the Midlands eight years ago, raising £35 million through a bond scheme to buy a 250-year lease on the CBS Arena.
Talks with Frasers Group were said not to have progressed to how much the club would be charged for staying put.
-
Right in the middle of JLR factories!
Maybe get them to sponsor us again :)
-
Much easier to get to! Park at my dad's and walk across!
-
Makes some sense, 30 mins from EPIC and not likely to be a large rent.
-
https://www.solihullmoorsfc.co.uk/club/match-day-information/
-
Cracking bar, tidy little ground,parking might be a problem.
-
Does anyone know if there is scheduled to be relegation form the Championship this season?
-
Does anyone know if there is scheduled to be relegation form the Championship this season?
Depends on the numbers the Championship ends up with plus the RFU desire to reorganise - eg 10+10 etc.
I think it is unfair just to boot somebody - Scottish- out.
-
just looking at games I could easily get to & Scottish is on the list so no, hopefully they don't relegate anyone :)
That said of course, if they don't, with the addition of Wasps & probably Warriors (lets assume they get their issues sorted out) that would be 14 teams.... and we all now know that 14 teams is too many !
-
Don’t forget the Prem needs to lose a ream as well if they are to get down to the 10 clubs that is the current magic number.
-
Much easier to get to! Park at my dad's and walk across!
If that's a invitation I'll take you up on it and buy you a pint or two
-
So, to recap, it sells beer, has Wasps playing there and……..well that’s good enough really :)
-
Also used to be the home of Birmingham and Solihull RFC aka Pertemps Bees. Ironic.
-
Are we going to be permanent or temporary tenants?
-
It's not too badly placed travel wise, almost midway between Solihull and Birmingham International stations. A 10 min drive from the former and 8 mins from the latter (or a 50 min walk if you're than energetic). So, pretty well linked to the Chiltern line and the West Coast Mainline.
-
?Parking? ?Spaces for Electric buggies? ?Guarantee of no rain on match day? We only got two tiny mizzles in all our time at the Ricoh/CBSA amazingly. Never had to don a mac.
-
Also used to be the home of Birmingham and Solihull RFC aka Pertemps Bees. Ironic.
Oh the memories :(
-
Also used to be the home of Birmingham and Solihull RFC aka Pertemps Bees. Ironic.
Oh the memories :(
Sadly, that day still sits in the memory.
-
Also used to be the home of Birmingham and Solihull RFC aka Pertemps Bees. Ironic.
Oh the memories :(
Sadly, that day still sits in the memory.
I think burns is a better description.
-
A few nights before I drunkenly staggered past a bookies offering 300/1 with £40 in cash on me. My rationale for not putting the bet on was that I could use the £40 to travel to Newcastle for the semi final...
-
Much easier to get to! Park at my dad's and walk across!
If that's a invitation I'll take you up on it and buy you a pint or two
If you're Lichfield way (or around there) more than welcome to catch lifts!
Edit: the walk isn't as short as I thought! But it's at least through the park and perhaps easier than stressing about trying to park at the ground.
-
Much easier to get to! Park at my dad's and walk across!
If that's a invitation I'll take you up on it and buy you a pint or two
Is there a viable location for a shuttle service to run from?
A park and ride? A local rail station?
I used to use the shuttle service at high Wycombe and while it could be a little frustrating at times, it certainly solved some problems
If you're Lichfield way (or around there) more than welcome to catch lifts!
Edit: the walk isn't as short as I thought! But it's at least through the park and perhaps easier than stressing about trying to park at the ground.
-
I have been to a few Solihull Moors games with a friend who is a supporter. They have had quite a rise up over the last few years and play an exciting game scoring lots of goals, but conceding a few as well (so at least they have that ethos in common!). It seems to be a lot of local people's second team. They are currently in the National League and pretty competitive often getting close to going up.
I felt the atmosphere was quite similar to rugby, offen supporters would not be segregated, but tend towards their own end. They have been growing the facilities quite well.
There was quite a lot of unrestricted local parking on street within a 5-10minute walk in the side roads off of Damson Parkway and surrounds, although I guess that may change if numbers keep increasing.
-
From the club website that Heathen linked to a couple of pages back:
Alternatively, supporters can make use of the NCP Car Park at Birmingham Airport Cargo Term (B26 3QT). This is a short 15-20 minute walk away from the ground.
The club have struck a deal with NCP which means supporters can take advantage of a 40% discount when parking there on a matchday!
Read more HERE
https://www.solihullmoorsfc.co.uk/news/posts/moors-fans-can-take-advantage-of-ncp-discount-on-matchdays/
And the link gives:
As part of the special offer, Moors fans will be able to access a 40% discount on their matchday parking.
Duration of stay
Normal tariff
Discounted tariff (40% off)
1 hour
£2.00
£1.20
1 to 2 hours
£3.50
£2.10
3 to 5 hours
£5.00
£3.00
5 to 8 hours
£7.50
£4.50
8 to 24 hours
£10.00
£6.00
This exclusive offer will apply to those who choose to use the NCP Car Park Birmingham Airport Cargo Term (B26 3QT).
With the car park no more than a 15-minute walk from the ARMCO Arena, it gives fans the perfect chance to get a breath of fresh air and settle any pre-match nerves.
£3 for 3 to 5 hours seems reasonable.
There's a couple of pubs that allow motorhome stopovers within a long walk's distance, so I might be able to get to a few more home games.
-
It's brilliant that we are now discussing ACTUALLY going watch Wasps games.
-
So still 1 1/2 hours to drive to. Was hoping it would be closer, not sure I’ll be going to often.
Let’s hope we don’t mess this up. Not sure we will be in the premiership for a few years, if ever
-
If this comes off ok - then there's every likelihood that my FinL will be in a residential home in Solihull - so I'd guess our visits might coincide.....
A number of things have to line up - but feeling a lot more positive than before!
-
Much easier to get to! Park at my dad's and walk across!
If that's a invitation I'll take you up on it and buy you a pint or two
Is there a viable location for a shuttle service to run from?
A park and ride? A local rail station?
I used to use the shuttle service at high Wycombe and while it could be a little frustrating at times, it certainly solved some problems
If you're Lichfield way (or around there) more than welcome to catch lifts!
Edit: the walk isn't as short as I thought! But it's at least through the park and perhaps easier than stressing about trying to park at the ground.
There is Birmingham International train station nearby that could work - say 10 min drive max? Maybe quicker if they are able to take advantage of the bus route that goes alongside the A45 and comes out at the cargo entrance (which is opposite the road that a bus would need to go down to get to the Moors' ground.
-
Shuttle bus?
-
So still 1 1/2 hours to drive to. Was hoping it would be closer, not sure I’ll be going to often.
Let’s hope we don’t mess this up. Not sure we will be in the premiership for a few years, if ever
Wasn’t possible Westy. Had to be near the CBSA.
-
So still 1 1/2 hours to drive to. Was hoping it would be closer, not sure I’ll be going to often.
Let’s hope we don’t mess this up. Not sure we will be in the premiership for a few years, if ever
Wasn’t possible Westy. Had to be near the CBSA.
I except that, just seriously pissed off by the bullshit we were given about the move to Coventry. I the lies over the last few years have been staggering and I really hope some legal action is taken against our ‘old’ board.
The things I have issues with are how much more bullshit we will be given and with a ground that only holds 5,500, poor parking and no pubs close by, are we just going to be a championship side. How on earth can they double the size off the stadium and provide parking
-
Can you get promoted if you’re under 10k but building a new stand to provide the right capacity? Weren’t the EAs in that situation? That said, the rules that apply to the EAs are not the same as those applied to the rest of us.
-
Can you get promoted if you’re under 10k but building a new stand to provide the right capacity? Weren’t the EAs in that situation? That said, the rules that apply to the EAs are not the same as those applied to the rest of us.
As I understand it you have currently two seasons to comply provided you have the necessary plans in place (and funding).
-
So still 1 1/2 hours to drive to. Was hoping it would be closer, not sure I’ll be going to often.
Let’s hope we don’t mess this up. Not sure we will be in the premiership for a few years, if ever
Wasn’t possible Westy. Had to be near the CBSA.
I except that, just seriously pissed off by the bullshit we were given about the move to Coventry. I the lies over the last few years have been staggering and I really hope some legal action is taken against our ‘old’ board.
The things I have issues with are how much more bullshit we will be given and with a ground that only holds 5,500, poor parking and no pubs close by, are we just going to be a championship side. How on earth can they double the size off the stadium and provide parking
What would you prefer right now?
1) a new board that's trying everything they can to ensure the club exists next year, then if that means sharing at a ground that is less than perfect for us
Or
2) a board that says "you're right Westy, it's not worth it if the parking is a bit crappy and there's no pub, let's not bother"
-
It’s just telling me that we will be in the championship for at least 3 years and if we want to be premiership club we most probably have to move again.
Don’t tell me it was our only option otherwise we won’t be in existence.
I don’t won’t Wasps used again by some people trying to make money at the expense of the fans. Is this really existing or is it another rugby club that now has the same logo has we use to have
-
It’s just telling me that we will be in the championship for at least 3 years and if we want to be premiership club we most probably have to move again.
Don’t tell me it was our only option otherwise we won’t be in existence.
I don’t won’t Wasps used again by some people trying to make money at the expense of the fans. Is this really existing or is it another rugby club that now has the same logo has we use to have
I'm on the fence at the moment. I don't know how I'll feel about this club until we've actually got a squad together and are taking to the field.
Personally, i don't think I have a problem with us being a championship club. I have no expectations of us getting promoted immediately. A club of 30-40 players thrown together within 6 months has absolutely no right to get promoted.
What other options do you feel are open to the new owners?
-
Westy. I think that our future will be a bit pick and mix of what you suggest. Like many things it's probably just a case of taking what comes along and hoping for the best. I feel that we are in good hands with people who have the Clubs best interests at heart and who have been involved in Wasps history. Anyone who can extricate us from that mess and still keep the Club breathing has my wholehearted admiration and support. Solihull looks to be a good place. I'm sure we all send our deepest sympathies to them concerning the loss of those four beautiful children
-
Some thinking later.
1. We are not now, nor will we be in the future, playing at the CBSA as our Home ground.
2. We need a ground right now that has maybe 5k capacity.
3. It is unlikely any rugby club will ground share with us.
4. We cannot build a ground in 8-9 months.
5. In order that the RFU would accept us back, we must ALREADY have a ground secured, and it must be in the Midlands (whatever that is).
6. If we rule out Coventry, and to the East of Coventry (as being too near Leicester and Northampton), and then look for major rail links, and proximity to the EPIC site, we are stuck with Warwick/Leamington/Kenilworth/Stratford and the East of Birmingham (the M42 corridor). There are no suitable grounds in the former, so M42 corridor it is.
The Damson Park (or whatever its current sponsor calls it) ground is the ONLY choice. Take it or leave it.
It is far from ideal:
A. It has limited parking and the access roads can get quite congested.
B. Birmingham International is the logical choice railway station, but walking from there would not be advisable. Very few safe footpaths. Local bus services exist (and they are good), but transfer buses might be needed.
C. Limited entertainment options (like bar etc.) make it just about OK for football, but far from ideal for rugby. The outdoor clubhouse is OK, but small.
D. The pitch barely copes with the soccer games played there, it would not cope with rugby as well.
E. The stands are far from well designed or made. There are 'plans' to convert the terraces at one end to seating, but that will not add much capacity.
F. It is not a long term solution, as it looks likely to be cleared for development in 2-3 years.
The ground has been used to share before and that did not work out well, so there is sentiment against another ground share.
The club is likely losing about £1m a year, and has a wide ownership base (the top few shareholders between them only own 10% of the shares). Somebody is (unwillingly) subsidising the club as it expands (I think the gate numbers are going upwards, and it could break if it was at capacity for most games).
The ground has a very limited future, meaning money put in will be lost very quickly.
I wonder what Wasps offered to make it (the hassle and negativity from soccer fans) worthwhile for the owners?
Maybe:
i. A new (artficial) pitch.
ii. Money.
I really can't see why Wasps would want to stay here.
JLR do not own the ground, but would appear (in partnership with ProLogis) to want to acquire the ground (or it will be compulsory purchased). Would there be a donation of some land locally for a new pitch, stands, car park, etc. But, all other land nearby is already earmarked for this big project, so there is no alternative. I found the local plan document which shows the Damson Parkway project swallowing up both this ground and the Birmingham Exiles Rugby Club grounds, in the 3rd phase of the project for the whole area, starting construction in 2025. That suggests the ground share might last at best 2-3 years, before the ground becomes a construction site.
You can read the plans here (a pdf):
https://solihull.oc2.uk/download/attachment/3302
Lots of pretty pictures, diagrams and maps.
What this means is that the Legends may have a deal sorted for now (I expect it is), but already they have to be negotiating for a new ground. Maybe a replacement for Solihull Moors, but, whatever site that might be, would likely offer a new ground also for the Birmingham Exiles Rugby Club. Would they want Wasps there too?
Does that leave Wasps falling back on getting involved with Warwick District Council with their Community Ground in Warwick? That might be ready at about the right time, just. It is already planned for the right size (10k capacity, or would we want more?). If they were really sensible, they would make it bigger, maybe 'copy' the Brentford stadium (https://www.afl-architects.com/projects/brentford-community-stadium)?
-
One question now that we are confirmed as instated. What happens to the left over debt? as in to creditors such as local businesses?
Seen a lot of angry coventry based are unhappy that we seem to have got away with it and local businesses won't get repaid. I understand the bond was a risk but for local business it was supposed to be guaranteed.
Wondering if anyone new as want to make sure i have a rounded answer when asked on twitter/other rugby forums etc.
-
NWW - I think you might find the required ongoing RFU discussions will encompass the desire for promotion and what is needed. It is no secret what the requirements are. It will probably be kept under wraps for some time.
When I posted the link to their forum there were four comments on the Wasps thread. Now four pages and turning negative towards nasty. Not ideal. I note TRP state we are moving to Solihull but probably last journalistic license.
-
JLR won't need the land the ground is on at the moment.I work at one of there other sites they have more than enough land to be going on with.
-
JLR won't need the land the ground is on at the moment.I work at one of there other sites they have more than enough land to be going on with.
The proposal comes from ProLogis, and not JLR, and from the drawings it looks like a distribution warehouse on that site.
-
Now four pages and turning negative towards nasty. Not ideal. I note TRP state we are moving to Solihull but probably last journalistic license.
Not all negative, and if you look at those posters, you will see they are far from happy bunnies on any thread that they post on.
-
Surely just opening the main stand at the CBSA is the best option.
Self contained and areas can be expanded and hired as required.
Pitch relatively robust for both sports. may be easier, cheaper to maintain than at Solihull Moors or similar.
I think initially we will get between 5-10K and maintain it if we start winning.
Downside is old Wasps regime may have some bitterness with local businesses who have lost money.
-
Surely just opening the main stand at the CBSA is the best option.
Self contained and areas can be expanded and hired as required.
Pitch relatively robust for both sports. may be easier, cheaper to maintain than at Solihull Moors or similar.
I think initially we will get between 5-10K and maintain it if we start winning.
Downside is old Wasps regime may have some bitterness with local businesses who have lost money.
But if Ashley doesn't want us??
Solihull should be more realistic.
-
But if Ashley doesn't want us??
Solihull should be more realistic.
Must have missed that !!
-
I wonder what Wasps offered to make it (the hassle and negativity from soccer fans) worthwhile for the owners?
Maybe:
i. A new (artficial) pitch.
ii. Money.
That won't happen as Moors are ambitious and if promoted will have to play on grass. Witness Sutton United a couple of years back. Non league it was used by the whole community - now solely for SU.
-
Maybe we could ground share with CCFC when they build their new stadium with Warwick University!
-
I wonder what Wasps offered to make it (the hassle and negativity from soccer fans) worthwhile for the owners?
Maybe:
i. A new (artficial) pitch.
ii. Money.
That won't happen as Moors are ambitious and if promoted will have to play on grass. Witness Sutton United a couple of years back. Non league it was used by the whole community - now solely for SU.
A fully grass pitch would not last one game with our human bulldozers on it (and not then be unsuitable for soccer).
The Brentford pitch is a Desso Grassmaster woven pitch, which is approved for Premier League play. Between a half and a million to install.
As to the CBSA, it would seem Mr Ashley doesn't want us there, so that is not an option.
-
JLR won't need the land the ground is on at the moment.I work at one of there other sites they have more than enough land to be going on with.
Agreed, the big business park planned across the A45 from Witney hasn't really progressed.
Will be interesting to see what happens as Thierry wanted to reduce the number of sites JLR had around the midlands.
I had a look at the proposal for Solihull and it's part of the last stage 2025-30 and states it needs current occupiers to be moved elsewhere. Nothing is happening there any time soon.
-
I had a look at the proposal for Solihull and it's part of the last stage 2025-30 and states it needs current occupiers to be moved elsewhere. Nothing is happening there any time soon.
That'll be at the end of the period Wasps will be required to stay in the vicinity of Coventry!
-
That was my point. IF these rumours are true, Wasps must have a medium term solution already well in to planning, that is unlikely to be at Damson Park.
I do not think they will move south to London, much as many fans would like, it will be too expensive.
Whilst Coventry has some rugby heritage, it is mainly soccer based. South West Birmingham (Solihull and Moseley) out towards Warwick/Leamington/Stratford is a very strong rugby area.
-
They could also move slightly south down the M40 corridor towards Bambury/Bicester.
Still within half an hours drive of the training centre.
-
They could also move slightly south down the M40 corridor towards Banbury/Bicester.
Still within half an hours drive of the training centre.
Indeed. Wouldn't it be a good use of resources to reuse a ruined piece of land such as that used as construction sites for HS2? There is one (used by Balfour Beatty) just outside of Ufton that would be good. The land has been totally ruined by the site, but it isn't close enough to anywhere to be useful as even an industrial estate. It is about 600m x 400m in size, next to the Grand Union canal and Welsh Road. It's purpose was to process the spoilage from the HS2 tunnel at Hunningham Woods. There two other such sites nearby, like the one on the A425 outside Southam, and the one on the Fosse Way outside Offchurch.
Trouble is, all these potential sites would take a decade to develop, and there is not the time. Wasps need to jump in on a project that is pretty much going ahead, like the one in Warwick. All the other sites I have heard of are aspirations.
-
Newest rugby stadium in the UK is the Dam Health. Built as 7.5k but extendable and cost £25m. That included all the excavation and drainage to an area prone to flooding.
-
Newest rugby stadium in the UK is the Dam Health. Built as 7.5k but extendable and cost £25m. That included all the excavation and drainage to an area prone to flooding.
Yes, and so how can any club ever afford to build a new rugby stadium? The Legends presumably could not afford the £16m Ashley paid (reportedly, I think) to buy the CBS.
I wonder how many of the Premiership and Championship clubs own their own stadium (as opposed to renting it, or it being owned by a connected party, as ACL owned the arena)?
Indeed, I wonder how many top flight soccer clubs own their own grounds?
The Brentford Stadium cost £70m. By comparison, the Edinburgh stadium is a modern garden shed. Where on earth do these clubs get that sort of money?
And why was the CBS Arena sold for so little?
These, and many more, questions will be answered next week. Same bat channel, same bat time ...
-
Newest rugby stadium in the UK is the Dam Health. Built as 7.5k but extendable and cost £25m. That included all the excavation and drainage to an area prone to flooding.
I did some digging into this as it sounded crazy expensive for 4 temporary stands, albeit on foundations good for much bigger permanent stands.
And it was a good job I did. 🤣
The new Edinburgh Rugby stadium actually cost £5.7 million to build. It was physically done within a year. Looks like planning was another year or so on that, started sometime in 2018.
Capacity is currently just under 7,800 and they're already looking at permanent stands and filling in corners to hit 10k.
-
I think as long as we are looking at possible longer term solutions already, we should be OK.
I need to learn to trust our new owners/board and that no news is OK and good work will be being done behind closed doors.
I think staying in the West Midlands might be a good thing, selfishly, as the area isn't so well served by top flight rugby (especially if Wasps do return to the Premiership) and people may be inclined to come watch us instead. Example - my dad is thinking of a season ticket with his mate on the basis they have moved locally.
-
Newest rugby stadium in the UK is the Dam Health. Built as 7.5k but extendable and cost £25m. That included all the excavation and drainage to an area prone to flooding.
I did some digging into this as it sounded crazy expensive for 4 temporary stands, albeit on foundations good for much bigger permanent stands.
And it was a good job I did. 🤣
The new Edinburgh Rugby stadium actually cost £5.7 million to build. It was physically done within a year. Looks like planning was another year or so on that, started sometime in 2018.
Capacity is currently just under 7,800 and they're already looking at permanent stands and filling in corners to hit 10k.
Apologies you are correct on cost. I couldn't remember so took the figure on Wikipedia. AND I am a STH there so no excuses.
-
No worries. Makes it more positive for us that something can be achieved! 😁
-
They could also move slightly south down the M40 corridor towards Banbury/Bicester.
Still within half an hours drive of the training centre.
Indeed. Wouldn't it be a good use of resources to reuse a ruined piece of land such as that used as construction sites for HS2? There is one (used by Balfour Beatty) just outside of Ufton that would be good. The land has been totally ruined by the site, but it isn't close enough to anywhere to be useful as even an industrial estate. It is about 600m x 400m in size, next to the Grand Union canal and Welsh Road. It's purpose was to process the spoilage from the HS2 tunnel at Hunningham Woods. There two other such sites nearby, like the one on the A425 outside Southam, and the one on the Fosse Way outside Offchurch.
Trouble is, all these potential sites would take a decade to develop, and there is not the time. Wasps need to jump in on a project that is pretty much going ahead, like the one in Warwick. All the other sites I have heard of are aspirations.
All of those sites you mention are a nightmare to get too for upto 10,000 people which would have to be the target.
Taking Ufton, that is effectively on the route to Gaydon, and anyone who travelled to Gaydon for JLR will know how chaotic it was for 4000 people, and all didn't need to use the Fosse.
-
That cost sounds a lot more like I was expecting. Of course, you will not get the views that structural concrete/steel cantilever roofs and upper tier stands would give you, but you also avoid the maintenance nightmare that these designs often are. The gain is a much cozier atmosphere, as long as they do not compromise on the seats. It never ceases to amaze me how dumb architects can be to specify the 'standard' too narrow soccer stadium sized seats, when it will be big burly ex rugby players squeezing in to them.
Oh, another reason, really daft I know, to do a joint stadium with Leamington Brakes. Their team colours are black and gold, inherited from those days long ago when they were the works team for AP Lockheed, whose packaging and logo were black and gold (I was a manager at that factory before I moved jobs to JLR). We could have black and gold seats!!
-
They could also move slightly south down the M40 corridor towards Banbury/Bicester.
Still within half an hours drive of the training centre.
Indeed. Wouldn't it be a good use of resources to reuse a ruined piece of land such as that used as construction sites for HS2? There is one (used by Balfour Beatty) just outside of Ufton that would be good. The land has been totally ruined by the site, but it isn't close enough to anywhere to be useful as even an industrial estate. It is about 600m x 400m in size, next to the Grand Union canal and Welsh Road. It's purpose was to process the spoilage from the HS2 tunnel at Hunningham Woods. There two other such sites nearby, like the one on the A425 outside Southam, and the one on the Fosse Way outside Offchurch.
Trouble is, all these potential sites would take a decade to develop, and there is not the time. Wasps need to jump in on a project that is pretty much going ahead, like the one in Warwick. All the other sites I have heard of are aspirations.
All of those sites you mention are a nightmare to get too for upto 10,000 people which would have to be the target.
Taking Ufton, that is effectively on the route to Gaydon, and anyone who travelled to Gaydon for JLR will know how chaotic it was for 4000 people, and all didn't need to use the Fosse.
True, there isn't the road infrastructure, and the nearest railway station was closed by Beeching. You could go by narrowboat? hehe.
-
That cost sounds a lot more like I was expecting. Of course, you will not get the views that structural concrete/steel cantilever roofs and upper tier stands would give you, but you also avoid the maintenance nightmare that these designs often are. The gain is a much cozier atmosphere, as long as they do not compromise on the seats. It never ceases to amaze me how dumb architects can be to specify the 'standard' too narrow soccer stadium sized seats, when it will be big burly ex rugby players squeezing in to them.
Oh, another reason, really daft I know, to do a joint stadium with Leamington Brakes. Their team colours are black and gold, inherited from those days long ago when they were the works team for AP Lockheed, whose packaging and logo were black and gold (I was a manager at that factory before I moved jobs to JLR). We could have black and gold seats!!
Surprisingly I thought that before my first visit but the uprights are so slender you slowly don't notice them - certainly less blockage than many I have been to.
-
With regard to temorary stands an easy, and cheaper solution would be a tensile steel/fabric structure as used by Newcastle Falcons. These require minimal foundations, and take only days to erect.
In my previous post I mentioned Banbury/Bicester primarily because they are still both in "our" area, and are easily reached by both London/High Wycombe and midlands-based fans using the M40 and Chiltern Railways.
Banbury United stadium is immediately outside Banbury station and has a capacity of 6500, but is situated in the middle of an industrial estate (sounds familiar) with no parking, but the station has a largish car park that is relativelempty at weekends.
Bicester is more interesting because the shopping village purchased the towns only real existing green playing area a few years ago, and evicted all the teams, but has just locked it up and is facing a real backlash from the residents. There is a call for more sports-based development (a lot of space along the A41 in both directions). A joint venture could be a solution there.
-
IMO a number of poster really need to appreciate the situation Wasps are in.
They have the EPIC, the Wasps name & RFU approval to play in the Championship (which will have come with a number of caveats & restrictions)
THAT IS ALL THEY HAVE !! No players, no coaches, no back room staff (Pudsey excepted), no ground to play in, no sponsors, no local goodwill.
To suggest that in the time since Wasps went into administration till now the new owners should have been able to conjure up a move back to London (even though the RFU would never allow that at the moment) to a 15-20 thousand seat stadium with train links & ample parking is completely ridiculous IMO.
Beggars cannot be choosers so absolutely ANY incarnation of Wasps playing in the Champ at ANY ground is better than nothing. Forget getting back to the prem for now, its about getting a team out & playing in the first round of the Championship next September. Things can be built on after that.
-
BP - absolutely agree.
Even if the RFU had a change of heart and allowed it, there is no future for any other professional rugby clubs in London. There just isn't the following to make it viable. Even London Irish who combined three clubs and then decided to become the plastic Paddies to appeal to the Irish fan base struggle to attract fans.
Wasps have, sort of, settled in the south midlands area, but still have a loyal fan base from when they were based in the London/High Wycombe area. Therefore it would make sense to TRY to locate somewhere where both sets of fans could get to watch, but also in the general area which the RFU would approve of.
As a Championship team they will never attract the sort of player we had prior to admin, unless we get someone like Trailfinders Mike Gooley on board. However we might attract players who have been left adrift by the 2 collapses.
There is no doubtthat, unless we can get a sugar daddy, we will not be in the position of ownong our own ground. We will need to have the use of an existing groun`d or find some sort of joint venture whereby we can add, say, stands to an existing area. A bit like Bath do at the Rec.
What we also have to remember is that, wherever we do play in the immediate future, we are there for a minimum of three years, unless something happens to stop it
Was just about to post this when someone who knows more about the area phoned and said "are you sure it's Solihull Moor -what about the old Bees stadium in Sharmans Cross Roadl is currently unused, or even their current Portway stadium off J1 M42"
-
Sharmans Cross Road pitches now belong to a developer who is trying to get planning permission for houses, which is why it is derelict for now.
The Portway site is just a field with clubhouse, not suitable for use in the Championship. That is the problem with pretty much any rugby club ground in the Midlands; no stands, car parking or hospitality facilities. Time and money are against us.
-
London is a no no, the fans are not there. They never were many rugby fans, and that was when London had a higher percentage of people who were likely to have had rugby at school.
I am happy that we are starting as we are. I would like us to move a bit further south to maybe equidistant to AP and the CBS, maximising support, in the longer term. However, if we ever have any desire to go back to prem status, I think that needs to happen in a 3/4 year window max. It won't happen after 10 years. I think we won't survive long term as a championship outfit, to be honest, but it is worth a crack.
-
Just to put it out there. This news re Solihull is still unratified as far as I know?
-
The Portway site is just a field with clubhouse, not suitable for use in the Championship.
Really? What about Caldy? Or Ampthill? Great clubs with fantastic fans - proper rugby.
Baldpaul is spot on. I think we need to manage our expectations a bit more and have a great deal more humility. And I for one would rather not antagonise other Championship Clubs' supporters before we even get there.
-
The Portway site is just a field with clubhouse, not suitable for use in the Championship.
Really? What about Caldy? Or Ampthill? Great clubs with fantastic fans - proper rugby.
Baldpaul is spot on. I think we need to manage our expectations a bit more and have a great deal more humility. And I for one would rather not antagonise other Championship Clubs' supporters before we even get there.
Absolutely
Just being competitive in the championship would be impressive
-
The Portway site is just a field with clubhouse, not suitable for use in the Championship.
Really? What about Caldy? Or Ampthill? Great clubs with fantastic fans - proper rugby.
Baldpaul is spot on. I think we need to manage our expectations a bit more and have a great deal more humility. And I for one would rather not antagonise other Championship Clubs' supporters before we even get there.
Absolutely
Just being competitive in the championship would be impressive
Indeed. I‘ll be happy with anything higher than mid table mediocrity in year 1 and don’t expect serious promotion hopes until at least year 3.
I am of course making a huge assumption that the PRL isn’t idiotic enough to ring-fence themselves with no relegation after they get down to 10 clubs.
-
Depressing to read the interview with our new CEO that he sees this new potential club as a "hard reset" to the Midlands. They just don't learn ...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/64050985
Only hope was a long term vision to get back towards the M25 in my view, contrary to many of you.
We needed a break from the disasterous geography og the last 7 years, and also the management. Holland sat on the useless Wasps board and has motives for staying near his training investment
We dont have this needed clean break
-
Depressing to read the interview with our new CEO that he sees this new potential club as a "hard reset" to the Midlands. They just don't learn ...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/64050985
Only hope was a long term vision to get back towards the M25 in my view, contrary to many of you.
We needed a break from the disasterous geography og the last 7 years, and also the management. Holland sat on the useless Wasps board and has motives for staying near his training investment
We dont have this needed clean break
There are a number reasons he HAD to say this.
1. In the short term, the RFU insist on it. The full approval has not yet been issued, so he must be on script.
2. If you tell potential fans for next year that you are not staying, they won't come. In essence, if you don't invest in their area, they won't invest in you.
3. Many/most potential recruits/signings (staff/coaches/players), if told you will be off some (long) distance away at some non-specified future date, won't sign with you, especially as the pay will be lower, so they will want to keep travel costs down. They won't have expensive Mercedes/BMWs on lease paid for by the club, and they are unlikely to get paid much in travel expenses.
4. An initial one year deal with the potential ground was mentioned. My guess is we will need to rent a ground for at least 3-4 years. Whoever you deal with won't want to do a deal if they know you will be off as soon as you can.
And then, having laid down those roots, moving even when you planned to, is very hard. As Wasps found out when they left AP, and ...
-
A book called Soccernomics is worth a read. While the focus is football, many of the points it makes can be applied to other sports. One of the more interesting points it identifies is the turnover of 'loyal fans' - measured by season ticket holders. It finds that, over a 7 year period, there is almost complete churn in the names of the season ticket holders and that very few are lifers. If the same is true in rugby, then a move back inside the M25 risks losing the current fan base and then having to build up a new set of fans.
-
Has this been posted elsewher? Apologies if it has, but there are some big companies mentioned.
The new “plc-style” board comprises Scott; Dame Inga Beale, former chief executive of Lloyd’s of London; Simon Morris, chief creative officer worldwide at Amazon; Chris Braithwaite, former head of Apple’s global real-estate division, plus a financial director.
-
Hope they live up to their histories.