Always a Wasp
General Category => Wasps Rugby Discussion => Topic started by: SteveTodd on October 26, 2019, 06:32:21 PM
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Hi everyone,
I am completely new to following rugby, apart from of course the world cup, so I mean regional clubs. I have picked on Wasps to follow (entirely because I invested in their corporate bond, and because of that I started paying attention to their matches). I am quite new to rugby, so my understanding is possibly a bit naive at the movement, but hopefully that won't last. But because Wasps seem to have started a bit badly this season (although I realise we are only 2 games into the season, but the London Irish result did surprise me), I wondered if Wasps have more significant players tied up with the world cup at the moment than the other teams teams anticipated to end up in the bottom half of the league? Being a supporter of Sunderland football club, I am well used to disappointment, I'm just trying to manage my expectations.
Steve
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I'm a big Wasps fan but we're gonna finish near the bottom this year. Soz but there you go. No reflection of these matches particularly just how I view the season. Very much a consolidation season.
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I hate to admit it but I agree that we are probably looking at the bottom three this season. I really do hope I'm wrong and we can scrape top 6 but after the Prem cup games and the opening 2 matches, I think we will be lucky to get past 30 points this season. But who knows, maybe with Launch back soon and a fit Willis and Gopps we may be able to shine again
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What really confused me was that on one website, I read that wasps had the highest 'wage bill' so I thought that they probably (incorrectly) were just going through a bad period, and form would return, due to having the highest paid squad? Do you think relegation is a possibility?
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Any idea when Gopps is back fit? Feels like we haven't seen him in an age.
I know dan today had taken a knock but two games in a row now I've noticed his service has often been poor. I'm a big fan of his so not knocking him but just an observation sometimes Lima and Co are getting the ball on their shoe laces too often and its rattling our attacking game.
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I'm only guessing but I think that wage bill info is prob historic. We've lost some big earners lately so we won't hold that honour now. Others may be able to confirm that.
Personally, I won't be relieved until the season is over and we haven't been relegated. You've picked the wrong season to start following Wasps.
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At a guess I would say sarries are paying at least double (maybe 3x) the next highest in terms of wages (all loopholes considered). We will be near the bottom of the league but doesn't take away from the fact they've bought all their titles.
A starting 15 of British and irish lions arent going to be playing for pride week in week out
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I think in Dai's last injury update he said that Gopps was back in training. So hopefully in contention for selection either next week or the week after. If Willis just needed stitches I reckon he will be back in a fortnight.
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Hi everyone,
I am completely new to following rugby, apart from of course the world cup, so I mean regional clubs. I have picked on Wasps to follow (entirely because I invested in their corporate bond, and because of that I started paying attention to their matches). I am quite new to rugby, so my understanding is possibly a bit naive at the movement, but hopefully that won't last. But because Wasps seem to have started a bit badly this season (although I realise we are only 2 games into the season, but the London Irish result did surprise me), I wondered if Wasps have more significant players tied up with the world cup at the moment than the other teams teams anticipated to end up in the bottom half of the league? Being a supporter of Sunderland football club, I am well used to disappointment, I'm just trying to manage my expectations.
Steve
Hi Steve and welcome - currently with Wasps is the hope that kills! We've had quite a bit of turnover in players - worth looking back at say the May 2017 Final, we had the Prem's highest points scorer playing (currently injured - Jimmy Gopperth) and Wade, the highest try scorer and were within 2 mins of winning - but we've lost 14 of that 23 to transfer and retirement and injury retirement etc
Whilst I know we need time to pull new players together - its just been rather "limp" so far and I think many supporters would like to see some indication that there is a plan....
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the London Irish result did surprise me
Actually it didn't surprise me. I was almost expecting it. As soon as the fixture list was announced, I was dreading the first game of the season. In fact Oirish did something very similar in 2017/18 when they returned to the Prem from the Championship. They beat Quins in the opening game of the season and then didn't win again until 14 games later. Then they got relegated.
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It's still early doors. We still have to gel, although you could argue that the squad have already had 18 weeks to do that, although many of the new players have arrived after preseason started.
I would like to think that we could make top 6, but we need to get a W under our belts. PDQ. Had chances last week and were within 4 points at one stage today. As happened last season, losing becomes a habit.
Next week hopefully Jack, Jimmy and our new FB will be in contention. If Billy is fit then I would play him at 10 and Jimmy at 12. Getting Joe back in the engine room will be a big bonus, but that is unlikely to happen until Nov 9 at the earliest.
We are seriously short of a genuine 12 and would argue that we need more go forward physicality from the pack.
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Welcome to the madhouse!
I am constantly puzzled by Wasps fans who are not aware of the weekly club releases especially on DW but occasionally here. Jimmy is a week away.
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World looks better with a W- if we have not got one by the end of Nov- panic.
If we pick up one we might get two and start to click.
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Welcome SteveTodd
The worrying aspect to the start of the season is we're only expecting 2 players to return from the WC, one of which is an unknown quantity in the premiership.
I think (injuries aside) we have a squad of forwards that should be able to compete with most other clubs but as I mentioned in an other thread, if we don't have Willis or YY on the pitch (and to some extent Launchers) we aren't able to compete at the breakdown which allows opposition teams to have a constant stream of quick ball phase after phase.
I don't know where to start with the backs (at this point in the season I'm not going to throw anyone under the bus) but if people think that Gopps is going to be the returning Messiah and save us then I think we're in for another very long season.
One player isn't going to turn us into the rugby equivalent of the Harlem Globetrotters. Gopps has been brilliant for us previously but he's no spring chicken and due to one injury after another has played little or no rugby for the last 18 months.
I'm still scratching my head as to why or how Dai didn't source another 12 for this season.
Lets just hope that we get some hard fought wins and a bit of confidence and belief filters through the squad.
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In terms of league position we are about a season or two behind teams like Gloucester, Northampton, Harlequins. They have had squad changes and management changes.
Sale have done what we did a couple of seasons ago and bought a hell of a squad (mainly via South Africa...).
These 4 look to be the top six contenders in addition to Exeter and Saracens this season.
7 to 12 will be us, Bristol, Bath, Leicester, LI and Worcester. Bristol have huge potential but not sure about consistency. Same with LI. Bath and Leicester are a mess in terms of behind the scenes and coaching. LI are newly promoted. Worcester have lost a lot of great players.
We are Inbetween top 6 and bottom 6 due to coaching restructures from previous season and player exits from last season. Over the last season the teams I predicted top 6 all look superior and more consistent going into next season. So far we don't look better than last season so expect more if the same this season.
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It's about game management / control.
So far this season we haven't done that at all. We haven't done any of the basics, we haven't convinced anyone that we can recycle through multiple phases and we all know we're unlikely to destroy teams with 1st phase plays.
That sounds drastic, but it's not.
We spent a year try to play single phase rugby without players who are happy to do that, and we seemed to take our eye off the multi phase aspects of the game.
I really feel that we need to take a step back, realise that we're not a special attacking force at the moment, and respect the traditions of the game by going through phases and adding some calm heads and control.
The more time we spend in possession, the less time we actually have to defend and the more tired the opposition will be compared to us.
We need a back row to give us chances of recycling quick ball and putting pressure on their ball.
But most of all, everyone needs to buckle down and do the basics well... The rest will come easily after that
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I think we'll be ok injuries allowing. If we can get Robson fit and Gopperth back you'll see a different Sopoaga. Minozzi will allow Watson to go back to the right wing and once Willis x 2 and Young are fit our back row options are impressive. Most on here would identify second row and 12 as our areas of need but even according accounting for that I think we'll be between 4th and 8th. We need a win to get us rolling.
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What I would love to happen with regards to our coaching set up is for Dai to take a true DoR role with someone to be brought in as a new head coach who has a lot of experience as a defence coach. I am a massive fan of Dai but I do think we need someone else to come in to mix things up.
I'm kind of likening this potential set up to having a playmaker at 12. Takes some weight off the shoulders of the 10 (Dai in this case), and both can have a pull at the strings
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Before London Irish game I hoped for a top four place and expected a top six. Now I hope for a top six and expect not to be relegated. Hope I’m right.
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Before London Irish game I hoped for a top four place and expected a top six. Now I hope for a top six and expect not to be relegated. Hope I’m right.
Yep +1
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I think we'll be ok injuries allowing. If we can get Robson fit and Gopperth back you'll see a different Sopoaga. Minozzi will allow Watson to go back to the right wing and once Willis x 2 and Young are fit our back row options are impressive. Most on here would identify second row and 12 as our areas of need but even according accounting for that I think we'll be between 4th and 8th. We need a win to get us rolling.
Given we lost last week with Willis and Dan fit, I dont buy into the narrative that academy Tom Willis, Young, Minozzi will make the impact required. And if we are relying on them we re in serious trubs. And why I continue to hear that Sops needs Gopperth to deliver a performance is mind boggling.
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Have a look back at yesterday's game Hymenoptera. Sopoaga was fed slow, ponderous ball that he could never work with. His first receiver was often a defensive minded 13 playing at 12 or some static forwards. I'm not pretending Sopoaga has been great. What I am certain about is that it's easier to impress as a 10 surrounded by Gopperth, Wade, a bought in Le Roux and Daly and a fit Robson. He's on a decent wage. He's played for the All Blacks. He's not a magician.
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Forget about yesterdays game, he hasn't had slow ponderous ball his entire career at Wasps. This narrative has been spoken about since he arrived, he must have Gopperth. if this is true, why did we recruit him, why is he #1 and how does he commend 500k a year when he's dependent on one player, or type of, supporting him.
He looked no better last season with Daly, Le Roux and Robson.
This wasn't intended to be yet another assassination thread of Sops, thats been done to death but this continued narrative is straw clutching. Moving away from Sops, I just don't see where our step up is coming from, we are playing like a Sunday pub team.
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My back 3 = Minozzi (or Miller), Kibirige and Watson.
Bassett needs a rest.
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My back 3 = Minozzi (or Miller), Kibirige and Watson.
Bassett needs a rest.
Not convionced by Kibrige - great going forward but can't, apparently, defend.
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Conversely Basset can tackle but offers nothing in attack..pick your poison I guess.
I havent seen enough of Kibriges defence to have an opinion either way
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Looking at the improvements last year for Saints and Gloucester, along with heavy recruitment for Bristol, Sale and Irish, I can't say that I expected an easy route to the top 4 or 6. However I expected us to be competing for those spots...
I'm now worried that last year's issues haven't been resolved/addressed and we may be an outside bet for top 6 but likely finishing around 8/9/10th. Which means we could well be in a relegation scrap if we are not careful.
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Its too early in the season to try and guess where we might finish in the league but there are worrying signs already that what we were suffering from last season is being replicated this season. I can't a coincidence the the current bottom 2 teams finished near the bottom at the end of last season
It will be a welcome sight to see Gopps back but don't let us forget that he is primarily a 10 that was sort of forced into playing 12. He excelled in that position outside Cips.
Lima plays differently so will that have a knock-on effect to Gopps and restrict how effective he can be? Who knows?
The two teams at the top of the league are the ones that changed their main coaches a season or 2 ago by removing long standing DoR's and bringin in new blood (and philosophies) .
I would say Wuss have also improved after Solomans came in and their league position last season and this probably dn't accurately refelct teir on field performances (maybe a smaller squad lacking depth restricts them?).
If Wasps are near the bottom of the league come next March, I think Dai (despite having a long contract in his pocket) should be looking over his shoulder