Always a Wasp
General Category => Wasps Rugby Discussion => Topic started by: Neils on August 15, 2023, 01:42:02 PM
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And red card rescinded.
That is the fudge.
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And red card rescinded.
That is the fudge.
Please do not associate a pleasant and enjoyable sweet with that thug.
A decision that is both unbelievable and entirely predictable.
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Why am i not surprised any other player would be facing the maximum ban.
The RFU banging on about player welfare and this thug with previous gets a slap on the wrist.I have had it with EPL and the RFU.
Ill watch the world cup but choose my games.
😡
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I had to check my calendar to make sure it wasn't April Fools
It seems the joke is on those in the game who are trying to limit head injuries
Utterly incomprehensible decision.
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🤬🤬🤬🤬
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Also massively undermines the new "bunker" review system.
They have 10 mins to make a proper decision in terms of affecting the game - and then are found not to have done so. Farrell should not have been red carded, should have come back on after 10 mins and restored England to 15 (I think, at that point).
Complete cock up.
Everyone waiting with expectation for the first RC for a high tackle in the RWC now....
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Word's would fail me if it wasn't so utterly utterly predictable. What hold does this thick idiot have over the RFU?
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I hope decisions like this are cited in the various ex-players lawsuits against RFU, World Rugby etc displaying how the authorities are not looking after player welfare.
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have no word's for this , just wrong
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Is this a SH versus NH view of his actions.
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Is this a SH versus NH view of his actions.
Potentially? I've seen some SH citings overturned where NH would normally ban... the fact the panel was (all?) Australian might point to that.
Makes the whole consistency question more pertinent then...
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Is this a SH versus NH view of his actions.
Potentially? I've seen some SH citings overturned where NH would normally ban... the fact the panel was (all?) Australian might point to that.
Makes the whole consistency question more pertinent then...
Yes my thinking.
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Not that I'm malicious but if we have to play the Aussies then I hope one of them does the same thing to him as he did to Basham.
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Do those banging on about the RFU and EPL not realise this is an IRB match and the panel were all Australian? I'm all for a knee jerk hot take but honestly.....
That being said, insane decision really. Faz was always upright and made no attempt to wrap. It could never be a legal tackle and as 2nd tackler Faz could never be in control of point of impact given the technique (or lack thereof). So to give mitigation because Basham wasn't where Faz thought he'd be? Nonsense.
And I agree with B&GSunglasses, think it damages the bunker system which I though worked well for Fagerson. The game got going again much quicker whilst a decision was made.
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Do those banging on about the RFU and EPL not realise this is an IRB match and the panel were all Australian? I'm all for a knee jerk hot take but honestly.....
That being said, insane decision really. Faz was always upright and made no attempt to wrap. It could never be a legal tackle and as 2nd tackler Faz could never be in control of point of impact given the technique (or lack thereof). So to give mitigation because Basham wasn't where Faz thought he'd be? Nonsense.
And I agree with B&GSunglasses, think it damages the bunker system which I though worked well for Fagerson. The game got going again much quicker whilst a decision was made.
While they may not be responsible for the "independant" world rugby committee the RFU presumably finance the lawyer who made the case for the defence of not guilty when at the same time saying they value player safety and literally about to introduce sternum height tackling in the community game?
Contradictory?
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I suspect this is gamesmanship from the Aussies! England looked marginally less predictable with Ford.
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Certainly enhances their chances if England stick with Farrell, though it won't matter- the coach is the wrong man.
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Shamelessly nicked from Shedweb. Credit to MarcusRann for posting.
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That?s Englands best chance gone
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An interesting article with comments from three rugby journalists. The point about England being able to roll out high powered legal support unlike minor nations is well made.
'I'm really not sure where rugby goes from here': Mail Sport's writers give their verdict on the 'o? https://mol.im/a/12410081 via https://dailym.ai/android
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We can add Kevin Sinfield's name to the list of rugby league tw@ts who should, as Lee Anderson might suggest **** off back where they came from too based on his Farrell / Beckham comparisons. Beckham was one of the best in the world, Kevin. Farrell isn't one of the best in England.
Sadly the one RL coach who has really done something in the game is English and has never coached England.
I won't bother to link the story, if you want to see a story about how hard done by Farrell is in the eyes of Kevin it's all out there.
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We can add Kevin Sinfield's name to the list of rugby league tw@ts who should, as Lee Anderson might suggest **** off back where they came from too based on his Farrell / Beckham comparisons. Beckham was one of the best in the world, Kevin. Farrell isn't one of the best in England.
Sadly the one RL coach who has really done something in the game is English and has never coached England.
I won't bother to link the story, if you want to see a story about how hard done by Farrell is in the eyes of Kevin it's all out there.
Unfortunately add Shaun Edwards name to the long list of thick.
https://mol.im/a/12409835
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Farrell shall now be known as St Owen of the High Tackle having pulled off the miracle of having his red card rescinded.
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I think one of the big differences here is that England actually challenged the decision to issue the red card.
Normally the player / union will plead guilty and the punishment will be reduced as a result; challenging the issuance of the card itself is very rare as you run the risk of an increased ban.
It look like, in this case, England decided the likely ban would be 4-5 games, and the risk of an additional one was worth the risk of rolling the dice and challenging the red card.
Couple that with expensive legal representation and a panel possibly inclined to lenience anyway and it becomes feasible.
NB. I'm not defending the approach - it was a red card all day long.
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I've never really worked out what the problem is with Farrell. But on the surface there seems two issues - but they might be linked by "entitlement".....
This tackle was a red all day long, the tackled player didn't dip and if anything, was saved from a full on shoulder tackle to the head by any movement. But Farrell didn't even attempt to do any of the things that are required by a legal tackle.....And looking at the vid seemed bang to rights, not wrapping or getting lower and looking to "impose" on the tackled player.
The connection is with my view of Farrell (Wasps-centric view of course) when he laid out Charlie. That seemed more because he'd been made to look a little pedestrian perhaps? And didn't like it.....And that level of entitlement is what seems to drive him to "tackle how I want to" and to "smack a youngster"....
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Horrible horrible creature.
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We can add Kevin Sinfield's name to the list of rugby league tw@ts who should, as Lee Anderson might suggest **** off back where they came from too based on his Farrell / Beckham comparisons. Beckham was one of the best in the world, Kevin. Farrell isn't one of the best in England.
Sadly the one RL coach who has really done something in the game is English and has never coached England.
I won't bother to link the story, if you want to see a story about how hard done by Farrell is in the eyes of Kevin it's all out there.
Don't know if you have read Sinfields otherwise excellent book but his view, while acknowledging potential head injuries, has always been that collisions are a foreseeable risk and shouldn't be removed otherwise the game isn't the game
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Just watched George Moala's tip tackle that earned him 5 weeks. The management of the game is all over the place.
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There are some very unhappy Pacific Islanders who feel they are unjustly treated in comparison. That includes Malakai Fekitoa and Dan Leo.
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There are some very unhappy Pacific Islanders who feel they are unjustly treated in comparison. That includes Malakai Fekitoa and Dan Leo.
And rightly so - can't afford to employ a KC to put their case.
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The committee that came to this conclusion should at the least be open to a charge of bringing the game in to disrepute.
By rescinding the red card, they have opened the iRFU up to lawsuits relating to not doing enough to minimise head injuries.
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+1
And they've done it on a technicality when the person who ruled in the bunker was looking at the incident considering the iRFUs position on player safety and their tackle guidelines.
If Farrell is picked in the first couple of games and commits another one of his reckless tackles and seriously injures a player that player might also be wanting to have a word with a lawyer. It probably won't go anywhere but it will make the authorities sit up.
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There are rumours that World Rugby are to appeal the decision.
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https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/tonights-rugby-news-world-rugby-27532855
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Oops
England captain Owen Farrell could still miss start of the World Cup as World Rugby confirm they WI? https://mol.im/a/12416745 via https://dailym.ai/android
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Good, some common sense prevails somewhere in Professional Rugby Governance.
Lets hope the right outcome is shortly forthcoming.
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Interesting where they manage to find 3 independent committee members from given all the recent coverage.
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Interesting where they manage to find 3 independent committee members from given all the recent coverage.
Pacific Islands?
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Mars?
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Interesting where they manage to find 3 independent committee members from given all the recent coverage.
Pacific Islands?
PI a good shout, especially as has been alluded to elsewhere, if Farrell's name was Farellannamu and he was an Islander the book would have been thrown at him for the same tackle, instead of being used as toilet paper by the independent committee. I don't doubt he has been treated favourably as an established nations skipper, and I think that Islanders would feel the same way.
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FWIW Shaun Edwards has come out as agreeing with the decision to rescind the red card, arguing that the other tackler (Jamie George) affected the height of the tackled player and OF had nowhere else to go.
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It's very disappointing from Shaun. Jamie George barely lays a hand on him. Farrell has nowhere to go? He's stood practically upright! He just has to bend his knees.
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Minor rant .....
BBC headlines:
"Farrell defends son..."
Well he would wouldn't he, what's newsworthy about that?
"Farrell ban could be reinstated."
He didn't get a ban.
I know its traditional that the B team is left in charge of newsrooms during August but jeez, that's an appalling standard of journalism.
We pay a licence fee so we can have a higher standard of journalism.
/rant
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FWIW Shaun Edwards has come out as agreeing with the decision to rescind the red card, arguing that the other tackler (Jamie George) affected the height of the tackled player and OF had nowhere else to go.
He has, but Shaun always favoured defenders, even when they were opposition ones and guilty!
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Interesting where they manage to find 3 independent committee members from given all the recent coverage.
Apparently this case hasn't reached NZ, Singapore or Ireland (??)
The player will attend a hearing via video conference before an independent judicial committee consisting of Nigel Hampton KC (chair, New Zealand), joined by Shao-ing Wang (Singapore) and Donal Courtney (Ireland). The hearing will take place on Tuesday, August 22.
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Now Fat Billy's had a red, will his hearing be on Tuesday as well. More sovs for the fat cat KC.
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Now Fat Billy's had a red, will his hearing be on Tuesday as well. More sovs for the fat cat KC.
Commentators saying he has never had a red before, so he should be let off.
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Now Fat Billy's had a red, will his hearing be on Tuesday as well. More sovs for the fat cat KC.
Commentators saying he has never had a red before, so he should be let off.
Well in that case he will probably get a Royal pardon and a generous compensation package!
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Tuesday for Billy too, a very home nations panel this time.
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/six-nations-statement-committee-date-named-for-billy-vunipola-hearing-england/
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4 week ban, not sure if back dated yet
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4 week ban, not sure if back dated yet
4 games does include Ireland already missed.
https://www.englandrugby.com/news/article/rwc23-summer-nations-series-owen-farrell-disciplinary-update
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Owen Farrell red card: England captain to miss first two World Cup pool games as ban reinstated - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/66581854
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Farrell was originally handed a six game ban.
However it was reduced to four games after taking all considerations into account:
?including the player?s acceptance of foul play, clear demonstration of remorse and his good character.?
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Owen Farrell will miss the first two pool games at the World Cup after World Rugby successfully appealed against the decision to overturn his red card.
The England captain's four-game ban means he will miss the group games against Argentina and Japan, with two warm-up matches also included.
Farrell's red card was overturned by an independent judicial committee, which itself was then overruled on Tuesday.
The Appeal Committee said the tackle was "always illegal".
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Farrell was originally handed a six game ban.
However it was reduced to four games after taking all considerations into account:
?including the player?s acceptance of foul play, clear demonstration of remorse and his good character.?
"Acceptance of foul play" ???? How can he be said to have accepted that it was foul play when a week ago he successfully argued to have the red card overturned?
Remorse??? I'm sure he's played the remorse card on every previous occasion, yet he keeps doing it. That's not how remorse works!
Good character?? Matter of opinion of course, but I know exactly where I stand on that one!
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He got a 3 match ban, not 4. Just because England chose not to pick him doesn?t mean it should count. He could have had a niggle and was never going to play or maybe Borthwick would have rested him to try something else, we?ll never know and it?s not for the disciplinary to second guess it.
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Pathetic.
'Good character'. Bullshit. Any Pacific Islanders get that said about them? Thought not.
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Farrell was originally handed a six game ban.
However it was reduced to four games after taking all considerations into account:
?including the player?s acceptance of foul play, clear demonstration of remorse and his good character.?
"Acceptance of foul play" ???? How can he be said to have accepted that it was foul play when a week ago he successfully argued to have the red card overturned?
Remorse??? I'm sure he's played the remorse card on every previous occasion, yet he keeps doing it. That's not how remorse works!
Good character?? Matter of opinion of course, but I know exactly where I stand on that one!
+1
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Farrell was originally handed a six game ban.
However it was reduced to four games after taking all considerations into account:
?including the player?s acceptance of foul play, clear demonstration of remorse and his good character.?
"Acceptance of foul play" ???? How can he be said to have accepted that it was foul play when a week ago he successfully argued to have the red card overturned?
They accepted it was foul play in the original but argued successfully it did not meet the red card threshold due to the mitigation they cited.
I think the 2 weeks he got reduced is actually more to do with the cock up of the process than the actual reasons given.
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Did he get a discount for offending in bulk?
Poor, poor decision.
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Did he get a discount for offending in bulk?
Poor, poor decision.
+1 His previous should have meant no reduction, and possibly an increase on the baseline imho
Still seems at odds with what eg Pacific Islanders get
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Duplicate posting
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But he is very very charitable: I've lost count of the number of times he has helped me across the road. I never actually wanted to go but a quick shoulder into my cheekbone soon made me change my mind.
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Perhaps he got a frequent flyer discount given his frequent impersonation of a one-winged aircraft.
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Was any decision arrived at regarding Billy's red card?
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Was any decision arrived at regarding Billy's red card?
Probably but for evening sittings they seem to wait until the next day to release -
However just read that the OF Board started at 7.30 AM and finally completed at 8.30 PM. A staggeringly insane length of time. I know it was different panels but maybe the Fat Bill one had to be delayed.
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Was any decision arrived at regarding Billy's red card?
Probably but for evening sittings they seem to wait until the next day to release -
However just read that the OF Board started at 7.30 AM and finally completed at 8.30 PM. A staggeringly insane length of time. I know it was different panels but maybe the Fat Bill one had to be delayed.
All the more sovs for the fatcat KC. He's loving it.
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Thank Neils. I did wonder if that might be the case.
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Was any decision arrived at regarding Billy's red card?
Probably but for evening sittings they seem to wait until the next day to release -
However just read that the OF Board started at 7.30 AM and finally completed at 8.30 PM. A staggeringly insane length of time. I know it was different panels but maybe the Fat Bill one had to be delayed.
Just 13 hours of Owen saying "I'm sworry"...
https://youtu.be/stHMD5N-KPw
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So Fat Bill effectively gets a one WC game ban.
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2023 Rugby World Cup: Billy Vunipola to miss England opener after red card - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/66585194
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I don't think either of these decisions are going to assuage the Pacific Island nations' concerns over the disciplinary process.
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I can see the argument for Billy's punishment and there is some consistency: First red and he hasn't done the tackle course.
But it does make me wonder what goes on at club training when when I see that and read something like this on the Beeb:
Scrum-half Danny Care says England have been working on their tackle technique every day as they look to improve their discipline for the upcoming World Cup.
I know for a lot of the older players they are having to change years, decades, of habit but the tackle laws got changed a at least a year ago and they should have had the habits changed by now. Its not like they're amateurs training once or maybe twice a week, its their full time job.
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But it does make me wonder what goes on at club training when when I see that and read something like this on the Beeb:
Scrum-half Danny Care says England have been working on their tackle technique every day as they look to improve their discipline for the upcoming World Cup.
I know for a lot of the older players they are having to change years, decades, of habit but the tackle laws got changed a at least a year ago and they should have had the habits changed by now. Its not like they're amateurs training once or maybe twice a week, its their full time job.
Indeed - but if you make a tackle like Farrell did - then it's deliberate. It was about height...but he still led with a shoulder and made no attempt to wrap. That's not been allowed for way more than year. And YouTube has loads of compilations of tackles v similar to that from last time. And he's of a temperament that made that decision to pole-axe Charlie. He's only ever had remorse when it suits. That was the sort of assault of someone who is deliberately taking people out, without regard to the laws. And i showed again last time out.
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Fazlet?s remorse only relates to being caught. Seems about right given who he is and the club he plays for.
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His club were vindictively penalised according to Jones in The Times. And yet they wonder why fans cannot let it go.
Nigel Owens thinks everyone should lay off Farrell, after he has written about how it was a clear red and should have been a ban, of course.
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As Skippy says, you are only remorseful if you do not repeat EVER the offence. Ever. Ergo, Fazlet cannot be deemed to be even remotely remorseful.
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.... when I see that and read something like this on the Beeb:
Scrum-half Danny Care says England have been working on their tackle technique every day as they look to improve their discipline for the upcoming World Cup.
A pathetic comment that fools no one but not as bad as Chris Jones on the BBC Rugby Union Weekly pod trying to create a groundswell of opinion to get the head contact red card protocol ammended because two Sarascen players can't tackle properly.
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.... when I see that and read something like this on the Beeb:
Scrum-half Danny Care says England have been working on their tackle technique every day as they look to improve their discipline for the upcoming World Cup.
A pathetic comment that fools no one but not as bad as Chris Jones on the BBC Rugby Union Weekly pod trying to create a groundswell of opinion to get the head contact red card protocol ammended because two Sarascen players can't tackle properly.
Just about sums up everything that is wrong with professional rugby in England today. If players cannot tackle according to the laws of the game, then should not be playing. End of.