Always a Wasp
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16
Wasps Rugby Discussion / Re: Interesting Summary
« on: March 28, 2020, 10:15:54 AM »
Interesting that Brad Shields isn’t mentioned as mom get the players suspecting of having the contracts expire this summer. Given Cov Tel has previously run a story on him being linked to Saints (which has gone quiet) I’m assuming they have had it confirmed that is not the case, else he would have been included?
I too think Carr and Young are priorities. Gops will surely stay. Matthews has changed a lot of people’s opinions this season, including mine and I would be keen for him to stay. It’s whether he feels he can get a higher wage elsewhere.
AJ.... hasn’t been around much this season. Would love to keep him but if Brad, Carr and Young are all staying, then I would think he might got elsewhere for game time at the end of his career.
Watson.... it’s a hard one. I think Kibirige has shown to be the better player this season. But Watson can be lethal on his day. I would be disappointed if he left as think he suits us, but I wouldn’t break the bank to keep him.
Without knowing incoming players, it’s hard to make a judgement on who to push to keep. But those are my thoughts without the inside track on recruitment
I too think Carr and Young are priorities. Gops will surely stay. Matthews has changed a lot of people’s opinions this season, including mine and I would be keen for him to stay. It’s whether he feels he can get a higher wage elsewhere.
AJ.... hasn’t been around much this season. Would love to keep him but if Brad, Carr and Young are all staying, then I would think he might got elsewhere for game time at the end of his career.
Watson.... it’s a hard one. I think Kibirige has shown to be the better player this season. But Watson can be lethal on his day. I would be disappointed if he left as think he suits us, but I wouldn’t break the bank to keep him.
Without knowing incoming players, it’s hard to make a judgement on who to push to keep. But those are my thoughts without the inside track on recruitment
17
Wasps Rugby Discussion / Re: Glaws sign EA cheat on loan
« on: March 12, 2020, 05:02:17 PM »
VV...
Appreciate what you're saying VV but I just don't think we can continue to black list every player that plays at Sarries. Did the club cheat, yes... Did the players know, more than likely... To what extent the club cheated, we cannot say that!
What is clear is that all clubs utilise 'loop holes' in the salary cap rules. eg, the Sharples going out on loan to exempt his salary, but didn't, saga. I'm not condoning Sarries for their actions as they were far in excess of any other club and clearly and blatantly disregarded the rules. However, should players not have gone there to earn a living and have a shot at trophies? Should a player now not be touched because they play/played at sarries? If a player was paid fairly by sarries and within the rules, why should they be punished if other players at the club were not?
Would I want a sarries player on loan? Probably not as I agree, we want a player to buy into our club. However, I don't think loans of sarries players should be banned. I also don't think it's letting Sarries off the hook, it's gaining a decent player for next season to help your club have a crack at silverware for a season.
On your final point, I bring things back around to Mark Wilson... why have Wilson and Sale not been critised for that loan deal?
BG...
How are the clubs assisting sarries 'wriggling out of the hole'? We don't know why the clubs are signing them. Perhaps clubs don't have the room in the cap as they have already mapped out their recruitment, so by loaning the players and splitting their salaries, are giving players a home for next season? We need to remember these are human beings earning a living.
It's not a way out of the predicament, Sarries will still have to adhere to the salary cap rules the season they come back. People are talking like the loanees will all go back in 18 months time and it will be business as usual, it wont be. Sarries have to trim down their wage bill to meet the cap and that will happen as they will be watched like a hawk. This is perhaps an iterative way of doing it. Perhaps sarries have a number of players with only 1 year left to run on their deals so will be retained for next season rather then paying the early release penalty (which would contribute to the cap and thus enforce Sarries to break the rules even more!) and the younger players who have multiple years on their deals will head out on loan for a year and come back to replace them…. Meaning no one is out of a job next season and Sarries stand a better chance at meeting the salary cap regulations both next season and the one after.
We should consider also that players like life at Sarries and the environment it has, so want to remain at the club long term (within the rules), so as a way of doing that, go out on loan to help the club restructure and come back to a squad that adheres to the rules.
As much as I hate that it's happened and cannot stand Sarries as a club, I think we need to get over it now and just move on. Sarries are going down and will have to adjust to a different premiership life when the come back up, in whatever capacity their squad is in in 18 months time.
Appreciate what you're saying VV but I just don't think we can continue to black list every player that plays at Sarries. Did the club cheat, yes... Did the players know, more than likely... To what extent the club cheated, we cannot say that!
What is clear is that all clubs utilise 'loop holes' in the salary cap rules. eg, the Sharples going out on loan to exempt his salary, but didn't, saga. I'm not condoning Sarries for their actions as they were far in excess of any other club and clearly and blatantly disregarded the rules. However, should players not have gone there to earn a living and have a shot at trophies? Should a player now not be touched because they play/played at sarries? If a player was paid fairly by sarries and within the rules, why should they be punished if other players at the club were not?
Would I want a sarries player on loan? Probably not as I agree, we want a player to buy into our club. However, I don't think loans of sarries players should be banned. I also don't think it's letting Sarries off the hook, it's gaining a decent player for next season to help your club have a crack at silverware for a season.
On your final point, I bring things back around to Mark Wilson... why have Wilson and Sale not been critised for that loan deal?
BG...
How are the clubs assisting sarries 'wriggling out of the hole'? We don't know why the clubs are signing them. Perhaps clubs don't have the room in the cap as they have already mapped out their recruitment, so by loaning the players and splitting their salaries, are giving players a home for next season? We need to remember these are human beings earning a living.
It's not a way out of the predicament, Sarries will still have to adhere to the salary cap rules the season they come back. People are talking like the loanees will all go back in 18 months time and it will be business as usual, it wont be. Sarries have to trim down their wage bill to meet the cap and that will happen as they will be watched like a hawk. This is perhaps an iterative way of doing it. Perhaps sarries have a number of players with only 1 year left to run on their deals so will be retained for next season rather then paying the early release penalty (which would contribute to the cap and thus enforce Sarries to break the rules even more!) and the younger players who have multiple years on their deals will head out on loan for a year and come back to replace them…. Meaning no one is out of a job next season and Sarries stand a better chance at meeting the salary cap regulations both next season and the one after.
We should consider also that players like life at Sarries and the environment it has, so want to remain at the club long term (within the rules), so as a way of doing that, go out on loan to help the club restructure and come back to a squad that adheres to the rules.
As much as I hate that it's happened and cannot stand Sarries as a club, I think we need to get over it now and just move on. Sarries are going down and will have to adjust to a different premiership life when the come back up, in whatever capacity their squad is in in 18 months time.
18
Wasps Rugby Discussion / Re: Glaws sign EA cheat on loan
« on: March 12, 2020, 01:24:09 PM »
I'm going to be hugely controversial here..... I don't see the problem and we're being massively presumptuous about which players knew what. Yes I agree that Mako, Farrell and Itoji, etc must have known given the level of salary. However, who's to say a 'squad player' like Singleton would have known? We need to stop assuming that every member of Saracen's squad knew what was going on and is complicit in it. Don't agree with the title of this calling Singleton a 'cheat'.
How is an aspiring player on the cusp of international involvement looking to stay in the spot light with a Prem club, a bad thing.... It's no different to Mark Wilson going on Loan to Sale for a season to ensure he remains firmly in Eddie's plans. No one seems to have kicked off at that loan move.
Don't get me wrong, I hate what Sarries have done and am very pleased they've got the punishment they have. However, I don't feel that every one of their players should be black listed and not allowed to better their career at another club at a critical time of their career.
What happens in a years time isn't confirmed.... a number may move permanently following their loans.
How is an aspiring player on the cusp of international involvement looking to stay in the spot light with a Prem club, a bad thing.... It's no different to Mark Wilson going on Loan to Sale for a season to ensure he remains firmly in Eddie's plans. No one seems to have kicked off at that loan move.
Don't get me wrong, I hate what Sarries have done and am very pleased they've got the punishment they have. However, I don't feel that every one of their players should be black listed and not allowed to better their career at another club at a critical time of their career.
What happens in a years time isn't confirmed.... a number may move permanently following their loans.
19
Wasps Rugby Discussion / Re: DoR
« on: March 08, 2020, 03:01:31 PM »
I agree that it’s certainly taken the immediate pressure off. What it potentially does is demonstrate to interested candidates of what the squad is actually capable of and this make us a more attractive role. I know Vaughn said his phone hadn’t stopped ringing but this spike in form will only help.
I agree with our northern friend, think there is more to the role that perhaps needs considering. This again raise the question of what type of set up are we after? Are we wanting the DOR and Head Coach pairing or a more hands on DOR? If it’s the former then potentially Blackett stays on if he’s not already off to Cov... funny how a few results change out perspective as fans, a month or so ago we were all questioning his coaching abilities... we can be fickle at times!
Personally, I‘d rather go for an established DOR and let someone like Blackett go and prove himself somewhere else and let them take the gamble. If we were to take a punt on someone and gamble a bit (Assuming ex was pies are settled where they are and Blackett is off to Cov), I wouldn’t mind Lancaster coming in.....
I agree with our northern friend, think there is more to the role that perhaps needs considering. This again raise the question of what type of set up are we after? Are we wanting the DOR and Head Coach pairing or a more hands on DOR? If it’s the former then potentially Blackett stays on if he’s not already off to Cov... funny how a few results change out perspective as fans, a month or so ago we were all questioning his coaching abilities... we can be fickle at times!
Personally, I‘d rather go for an established DOR and let someone like Blackett go and prove himself somewhere else and let them take the gamble. If we were to take a punt on someone and gamble a bit (Assuming ex was pies are settled where they are and Blackett is off to Cov), I wouldn’t mind Lancaster coming in.....
20
Wasps Rugby Discussion / Re: Ryan Mills......
« on: February 27, 2020, 05:37:14 PM »
Does anyone think that Booj was actually signed to become a first choice inside centre?
He's a signing that I felt was to add depth. A probable 3rd choice, selection from the championship.
He was already in his mid/late 20's when he joined us, so I doubt we were expecting him to grow as a player much more than he already had.
There's exceptions to that, such as Guy Thompson. However, on the while it's very rare for a player to make a significant step up in ability when they're in their mid 20's.
I think we signed him for squad depth, but that he's had to perform a more significant role.
I think he's actually quite solid for someone that you'd typically expect to only have to call on occasionally
The thing for me is i'd like all squad players to push for that start and ask questions of selectors. Yes he hasn't let us down and he was well and truly dropped in it when he arrived with the injury to Gopps. I'm also not naïve enough to think we can have a squad full of stars, but do need those squad players. My point is that I don't feel Booj asks enough questions come selection time... What a Mills would presumably bring is the competition to make it not a full gone conclusion that Gopps is starting when fit.
Competition breeds better performances and as much as I think Booj is a good 'squad player' I think we need a 12 that could genuinely challenge Gopps and keep him at his very best (even though he seems to be anyway!).
21
Wasps Rugby Discussion / Re: Ryan Mills......
« on: February 27, 2020, 08:25:25 AM »
Have to admit he's not a player I've watched closely but his name has cropped a few times when others have talked about recruitment options at 12.
His age is attractive, but after a brief read online his injury problems are a concern. For me Booj hasn't quite staked his claim to hold on to the 12 shirt fulltime. So based on others assessments and enthusiasm to sign him, i'll be happy to secure his services..... The only thing is that I don't we'll sign someone until a DOR is confirmed and they have confirmed they are happy with the current recruitment targets/negotiations.
His age is attractive, but after a brief read online his injury problems are a concern. For me Booj hasn't quite staked his claim to hold on to the 12 shirt fulltime. So based on others assessments and enthusiasm to sign him, i'll be happy to secure his services..... The only thing is that I don't we'll sign someone until a DOR is confirmed and they have confirmed they are happy with the current recruitment targets/negotiations.
22
Wasps Rugby Discussion / Re: Bath have been busy
« on: February 25, 2020, 09:43:54 PM »
Was reading the Bath Board yesterday as a matter of fact. It appears they want to strengthen their 9 options and Webb has been linked for some time, when the Toulon fallout happened. Think he’s just a stop gap until the end of the season.
The Redpath one is a funny one. It’s not often you see transfer fees exchanged to buy players out of contracts, especially for players that haven’t exactly set the world alight. Granted he maybe a bright prospect but Sale fans don’t seem too bothered at losing him.
Sounds like Bath aren’t done yet either. Their fans are having the same debate over Loz as we have... do you sign him as a covering 10 or as an out and out centre and look for another back-up 10.
The Redpath one is a funny one. It’s not often you see transfer fees exchanged to buy players out of contracts, especially for players that haven’t exactly set the world alight. Granted he maybe a bright prospect but Sale fans don’t seem too bothered at losing him.
Sounds like Bath aren’t done yet either. Their fans are having the same debate over Loz as we have... do you sign him as a covering 10 or as an out and out centre and look for another back-up 10.
23
Wasps Rugby Discussion / Re: Will Rowland on
« on: February 25, 2020, 07:30:52 AM »
From me Rowlands is now our clear second row partner for Launch. I love Gaskell and his play, but I feel Rowlands offers us the same level but more consistently with his fitness.
Rowlands' tackle count has always been high, but now he matches it in other areas of his game, specifically with his increased physicality in the carry.
I really hope we can hold on to him and not lose him to a welsh region.
Rowlands' tackle count has always been high, but now he matches it in other areas of his game, specifically with his increased physicality in the carry.
I really hope we can hold on to him and not lose him to a welsh region.
24
Wasps Rugby Discussion / Re: TRP
« on: February 23, 2020, 04:52:38 PM »
I stopped my online subscription sometime ago and only buy the paper copy in weeks I’m confident there’ll be some related stories to Wasps or subjects of interest. Went t the shop this morning as was eager to ready their take on our match report but also hope for some rumours on new DORs or coaches, only to find no copies available.
Booth is someone o had hoped we brought in before he went to Quins. Would be very please if we brought him in as a coac.
I do wonder what all this has done to our player recruitment status... will our targets/players we’re in discussion with, now go elsewhere due to the uncertainty of whether they’ll still be of interest by the incoming DOR.... or will we now have players holding off on signing elsewhere to see who comes in (I highly doubt this will happen). With the current DOR status, will we have to accept our recruitment will be sparse this year?
Were there other rumours for other clubs or has it gone quiet across the league?
Booth is someone o had hoped we brought in before he went to Quins. Would be very please if we brought him in as a coac.
I do wonder what all this has done to our player recruitment status... will our targets/players we’re in discussion with, now go elsewhere due to the uncertainty of whether they’ll still be of interest by the incoming DOR.... or will we now have players holding off on signing elsewhere to see who comes in (I highly doubt this will happen). With the current DOR status, will we have to accept our recruitment will be sparse this year?
Were there other rumours for other clubs or has it gone quiet across the league?
25
Wasps Rugby Discussion / Re: New DOR Options?
« on: February 20, 2020, 07:51:03 AM »Jonny it states that they will appoint to start next year, ie not having to limit the pool of applicant's to those only currently available, leaving a pool of virtually no one. That doesn't mean planning stops.
My take on this is that most people are contracted up until the summer elsewhere (at least the really good ones are!). So securing someone to start next season can still kick things off in terms of preparation.... They can provide shortlists of players to target, even talk to said players and sell the 'vision'... be a part of the recruitment process in restructuring the coaching and S&C set-up... Plan pre-season and training structures... etc.
I took that interview as very positive. it sounds like we're going about it exactly the right way.... move swiftly to secure someone in the coming weeks, but also consider all options and include key stakeholders in the decision.
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Wasps Rugby Discussion / Re: New DOR Options?
« on: February 16, 2020, 09:24:13 PM »
I don’t think we’re in a position to risk it on an untried DOR.
Yes some old waspies would be a romantic thought. However, looking at it sensibly are any of them really DOR calibre right now? Would rather they prove it elsewhere before we take the risk. Would be nice to have them as coaches but as others have said the new DOR must be allowed to bring in his own team.
I would spend £350k to get a DOR like Schmidt. But if we’re looking to watch funds then as much as Cheika is a marmite individual you have to think he’d inject some much needed fire into the team.
Yes some old waspies would be a romantic thought. However, looking at it sensibly are any of them really DOR calibre right now? Would rather they prove it elsewhere before we take the risk. Would be nice to have them as coaches but as others have said the new DOR must be allowed to bring in his own team.
I would spend £350k to get a DOR like Schmidt. But if we’re looking to watch funds then as much as Cheika is a marmite individual you have to think he’d inject some much needed fire into the team.
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Wasps Rugby Discussion / Re: Dai chopped??
« on: February 16, 2020, 06:49:12 AM »
Totally agree Bigad82, it has been a shambles in how it came out and is still out without explanation.
I’m not completely convinced of the Legal angle that others are stating on here.... why has that not been the case in any other ‘parting of the ways’ situation between a manager and club I can think of?
Granted I don’t know all the facts and should wait for them to come out but it’s hard to do that! To have it announced by the Coventry Telegraphy is laughable!!!!
I hope I am proven wrong in this statement with some revelation as to why the club take days to comment on the ‘change’ of manager.
The only thing that would soften this blow is that if the club had identified a key target to replace Dai who was suddenly available or only available for a short time and didn’t want to miss out on them like we did Shaun Edwards or Borthwick. I am a Dai fan and would have stuck with him providing there was a coaching overhaul. However, that’s seemingly now not an option, so I hope we have a brilliant replacement coming in!!
I’m not completely convinced of the Legal angle that others are stating on here.... why has that not been the case in any other ‘parting of the ways’ situation between a manager and club I can think of?
Granted I don’t know all the facts and should wait for them to come out but it’s hard to do that! To have it announced by the Coventry Telegraphy is laughable!!!!
I hope I am proven wrong in this statement with some revelation as to why the club take days to comment on the ‘change’ of manager.
The only thing that would soften this blow is that if the club had identified a key target to replace Dai who was suddenly available or only available for a short time and didn’t want to miss out on them like we did Shaun Edwards or Borthwick. I am a Dai fan and would have stuck with him providing there was a coaching overhaul. However, that’s seemingly now not an option, so I hope we have a brilliant replacement coming in!!
28
Wasps Rugby Discussion / Re: I just despair
« on: February 15, 2020, 06:44:25 PM »Now, because we have time to find the right person who also has time to plan his own methods and recruitment. Bigger question is why not now.
I dont think its a mess at all. There are legalities regarding his contract to work out i'd guess. Whilst we might like to know immediately, it isn't our given right, it has only been a few days.
My issue with it is why was this not all sorted out behind closed doors before Dai actually stepped down. I’m struggling to think of another instance of a coach being ‘sacked’ where the club actually didn’t announce it and take days to release a statement. I appreciate legals and contracts need to be sorted... so why was that not the case in the Cockerill or Mallinder instance?
I’m really intrigued as to what will come out in the statement to explain why the club are radio silent.
29
Wasps Rugby Discussion / Re: I just despair
« on: February 15, 2020, 06:22:25 PM »
Agree with a lot of what others have said above....
Today was always going to be a tough game for multiple reasons that others have outlined. So a loss is disappointing but not unsurprising.
I am more in despair at the Dai situation than the result. Not that he’s seemingly gone (though I am a Dai fan) but more how it’s been done. At least when Leicester parted ways with Cockers it was clear cut and official. This has been nothing but a mess!!
However.... it’s got me thinking why now, why so abrupt and rushed? Either Dai has walked due to a specific instance, liking missing out on a key signing for budget reasons.... OR.... an individual has become available to replace Dai and the club didn’t want to miss out on this guy like we did Shaun Edwards and Borthwick.
So I’m hoping something really positive is going to come out of this mess of a situation that we’re all despairing over.
Today was always going to be a tough game for multiple reasons that others have outlined. So a loss is disappointing but not unsurprising.
I am more in despair at the Dai situation than the result. Not that he’s seemingly gone (though I am a Dai fan) but more how it’s been done. At least when Leicester parted ways with Cockers it was clear cut and official. This has been nothing but a mess!!
However.... it’s got me thinking why now, why so abrupt and rushed? Either Dai has walked due to a specific instance, liking missing out on a key signing for budget reasons.... OR.... an individual has become available to replace Dai and the club didn’t want to miss out on this guy like we did Shaun Edwards and Borthwick.
So I’m hoping something really positive is going to come out of this mess of a situation that we’re all despairing over.
30
Wasps Rugby Discussion / Re: Dai chopped??
« on: February 11, 2020, 09:45:07 PM »
Want to wait before I start speculating on a possible replacement, as something just doesn’t seem right here.
This isn’t how clubs have handled ‘dismissals’ or planned replacements. This has to be an unforeseen event which has resulted in the club being unprepared. What I can get my head around is how Cov Telegraph have this story... All I’ve read is that Dai bailed on a press conference and then his car wasn’t in his usual spot. Is the players meeting confirmed, if so where’s that leak come from?
It just seems so odd happening now, even more so without a word from the club or a replacement announced (if one is actually coming). If it’s interim, then it suggests he’ll be back to his usual role in the future, so not a dismissal.
This isn’t how clubs have handled ‘dismissals’ or planned replacements. This has to be an unforeseen event which has resulted in the club being unprepared. What I can get my head around is how Cov Telegraph have this story... All I’ve read is that Dai bailed on a press conference and then his car wasn’t in his usual spot. Is the players meeting confirmed, if so where’s that leak come from?
It just seems so odd happening now, even more so without a word from the club or a replacement announced (if one is actually coming). If it’s interim, then it suggests he’ll be back to his usual role in the future, so not a dismissal.