Always a Wasp
General Category => Wasps Rugby Discussion => Topic started by: Neils on April 18, 2021, 07:56:30 AM
-
Wasps after- Billy Searle. But he is under contract until 2023.
Only other thing I can see is Lee agreeing that the Captain's Chsllenge should be a new addition. No guesses why.
Sadly the match report is as bad as you might imagine.
-
We're after a 10 from one of the few teams doing worse than us who already failed to make any impact when he played for us?
I hope thats not true.
-
Wasps after- Billy Searle. But he is under contract until 2023.
Why?????????
-
We're after a 10 from one of the few teams doing worse than us who already failed to make any impact when he played for us?
I hope thats not true.
+1
Probably the most underwhelming rumour.
Urgh
-
We're after a 10 from one of the few teams doing worse than us who already failed to make any impact when he played for us?
I hope thats not true.
Can't disagree with that.
-
Thanks for posting Neils - always look forward to the TRP rumours. Searle is an odd one. I can see the logic for us targeting an "old head" at 10 as Umaga and Atkinson need time to develop. But Searle doesn't really fit the bill as that for me. It may come down to affordability of course as these things inevitably do. I think made stranger by the proximity of him leaving - although that was under the previous regime.
-
Seriously though, with the amount of players leaving I'm incredibly underwhelmed by the transfer rumours.
Exacerbated by our form, I'm just staggered we haven't made one or two big signings. Hougaard was good, but we definitely need more.
But if we're going to promote from the academy we need to bloody use them.
-
Hopefully nothing in this, he is a professional, but with the greatest of respect, he is not developing into a 10 that can steer teams to silverware. Umaga and even Atkinson in his early stages already have far more to their game and also far greater potential. A signing not even worth considering.
-
I am afraid that i now think our most urgent need is to get our coaching set up sorted out followed closely by addressing the lack of power that we have. After a good start Blackett has used up his equity. I think we have the players but there is something wrong with the coaching and game plan. Yes, we have suffered from the lack of Willis and Barbeary but we try to compensate for the lack of power on the gainline by trying to play frenetically and that is never going to work. The first priority is getting go forward from which to use our backs.
On field leadership and a rusty Robson are problems too.
All this IMHO.
-
We're after a 10 from one of the few teams doing worse than us who already failed to make any impact when he played for us?
I hope thats not true.
Yet we’re happy for hougard to come here from Worcs?
According to report Wasps Fans were furious that Searle was allowed to leave for Warriors. Don’t remember that.
-
We're after a 10 from one of the few teams doing worse than us who already failed to make any impact when he played for us?
I hope thats not true.
Yet we’re happy for hougard to come here from Worcs?
According to report Wasps Fans were furious that Searle was allowed to leave for Warriors. Don’t remember that.
I don't remember Hougaard being decidedly average at best when he played for us a season or two ago...
-
We're after a 10 from one of the few teams doing worse than us who already failed to make any impact when he played for us?
I hope thats not true.
Yet we’re happy for hougard to come here from Worcs?
According to report Wasps Fans were furious that Searle was allowed to leave for Warriors. Don’t remember that.
One is an almost 50 cap Springbok international. The other, as VV says, has already played for us and failed to make an impact. This may explain the differing reactions to each.
-
I remember most Wasps being quite relieved when Billy left; the remainder said "Who?". Most of Worcester were happy to part with him as well.
-
But if we're going to promote from the academy we need to bloody use them.
I know that no one is happy with the way we're playing, but we're currently using West, Oghre, Barbeary, Willis X2, Umaga, Atkinson and 2 scrum halves all of whom were in our academy fairly recently.
While we're obviously not having them all on the pitch at the same time, that's still quite a few academy players making the starting XV
-
When Lee took over, he rode the wave.
Performances were already starting to show signs of improvement, but under Lee they really took off
He's now facing his first dip, and this is where coaches and management teams earn their corn.
I don't expect the issues to be resolved immediately, but he needs to show that he some plans
-
But if we're going to promote from the academy we need to bloody use them.
I know that no one is happy with the way we're playing, but we're currently using West, Oghre, Barbeary, Willis X2, Umaga, Atkinson and 2 scrum halves all of whom were in our academy fairly recently.
While we're obviously not having them all on the pitch at the same time, that's still quite a few academy players making the starting XV
I was referring to Sirker, Spink, Simonds and Bacon. All of whom are on loan rather than used as part of squad rotation.
So yeah tbf I generalized in an unfair way, we are using academy. But there are others who should also be given opportunity.
-
I think people are being too harsh on Billy. He was in great form prior to his nasty leg injury in February 2019 and only had the odd match here and there last season, which would make it difficult for anyone to regain some form.
Realistically if we are signing a 10, it's going to be a third choice 10 as we have Umaga and Atkinson at the front of the queue. Billy knows the club and our systems so should be able to slot back in easily enough. We could do worse.
-
This is surely way off the mark.
Why would a player leave for more gametime or because he wasn’t offered a new deal and then come back on a new deal to sit behind Umaga and maybe Atkinson?
Searle has been playing a fair bit at Worcester recently showing some nice touches so sure they’d want to keep him, isn’t Weir off too?
This doesn’t make sense at all and probably not the type of FH we should be looking at either. He hasn’t really proved himself consistently since breaking through at Bristol, his strengths are already present in our two younger FHs as our his weaknesses
-
I remember being set upon when I suggested Searle was a better fit than Lima. Wasps fans were determined that Lima would come good, but at the time Searle had actually displaced a fit Lima to the bench, and quite rightly. He did not set the world alight, but if his contribution was a failure, what on earth was Lima's? Lima, paid big bucks 'did not work out' whilst Searle 'failed' or was average/underwhelming etc. That seems a bit harsh on what was supposed to be second choice ten, or a bit complementary to the guy paid more.
I certainly don't think Searle is the type of ten we need as Jacob is a better version, and ironically if we sign an old head it should be a Goode type for the bench on those wet winter evenings.
-
I remember being set upon when I suggested Searle was a better fit than Lima. Wasps fans were determined that Lima would come good, but at the time Searle had actually displaced a fit Lima to the bench, and quite rightly. He did not set the world alight, but if his contribution was a failure, what on earth was Lima's? Lima, paid big bucks 'did not work out' whilst Searle 'failed' or was average/underwhelming etc. That seems a bit harsh on what was supposed to be second choice ten, or a bit complementary to the guy paid more.
I certainly don't think Searle is the type of ten we need as Jacob is a better version, and ironically if we sign an old head it should be a Goode type for the bench on those wet winter evenings.
I cant help but disagree with this. Searle didn't displace Sops, Sops was just already failing to find any form and we had little other option. At his best Searle was competent, even now Sops mixes disastrous mistakes with flashes of brilliance. That is what makes it so disappointing that he never amounted anything in a Wasps shirt.
That, if anything, is Jacob's problem. We have long missed a skillful and imaginative 10 so when it looked like he could be that person we pinned all our hopes on him. The fact that he isn't either a natural genius, or the finished article is perfectly reasonable, and we should all cutbhim a bit more Slack and let him develop.
If we need another 10 andbiybisnt going to be a world class player, it needs to be someone with experience who can help the youngsters develop.
Searle is not that person.
-
I am pretty sure Searle did get picked over Lima eventually. I think Dai confirmed it when specifically asked in interview, saying that was not injury or rotation but that Searle had earnt the shirt on merit. It was not for long, iirc Searle played well in half a European game, and got the nod over Lima for maybe two games a little further on, the second of which was Bristol, where he got injured, and that was basically that. I was not saying that Searle was especially good, just that people are either too harsh on him or too kind to Lima in their comments.
I don't think Searle would be a good acquisition, and I think it should be someone with experience, hence my suggestion of an Andy Goode type, so we don't disagree on the fundamentals.
-
Ironically the type of experienced 10 we need is Searle's current clubmate Weir.
-
Ironically the type of experienced 10 we need is Searle's current clubmate Weir.
Sadly he's back off to Glasgow I believe.
-
The only way I can see it making sense is if Lee never wanted Searle to leave in the first place and felt he could really work with him.
I can't see it happening though
-
But if we're going to promote from the academy we need to bloody use them.
I know that no one is happy with the way we're playing, but we're currently using West, Oghre, Barbeary, Willis X2, Umaga, Atkinson and 2 scrum halves all of whom were in our academy fairly recently.
While we're obviously not having them all on the pitch at the same time, that's still quite a few academy players making the starting XV
I was referring to Sirker, Spink, Simonds and Bacon. All of whom are on loan rather than used as part of squad rotation.
So yeah tbf I generalized in an unfair way, we are using academy. But there are others who should also be given opportunity.
I don't get this, "we have youngsters so let's use them as they must be good enough and that'll fix everything." Worcester are currently playing loads of their youngsters and are being completely hammered.
Also, Spink and Simonds have both played in the first team when fit, but have been injured. Sirker can't get into a Championship side yet. Bacon is behind an example of rare quality in our squad - or would you pick him over Bassett, Zach or Paolo?
-
But if we're going to promote from the academy we need to bloody use them.
I know that no one is happy with the way we're playing, but we're currently using West, Oghre, Barbeary, Willis X2, Umaga, Atkinson and 2 scrum halves all of whom were in our academy fairly recently.
While we're obviously not having them all on the pitch at the same time, that's still quite a few academy players making the starting XV
I was referring to Sirker, Spink, Simonds and Bacon. All of whom are on loan rather than used as part of squad rotation.
So yeah tbf I generalized in an unfair way, we are using academy. But there are others who should also be given opportunity.
I don't get this, "we have youngsters so let's use them as they must be good enough and that'll fix everything." Worcester are currently playing loads of their youngsters and are being completely hammered.
Also, Spink and Simonds have both played in the first team when fit, but have been injured. Sirker can't get into a Championship side yet. Bacon is behind an example of rare quality in our squad - or would you pick him over Bassett, Zach or Paolo?
Regarding playing youngsters it can be a two-edged sword, Wuss have lost Nick David to Quins today. He was put into the first team and as a result of some good performances, has been monitored, and has now gone to a club where he might win something. I hope we don't let that scenario occur with some of our more prodigious talent.
-
Our record over the last 5 years suggests that we might win something- two tight as a badger's backside finals and semis on top, all whilst Sarries were cheating. Certainly better than Bath, Quins, Sale or Bris over that time period. Or record over the last ten weeks suggests we are nowhere near, but things can change pretty quickly.
-
Agree with the Westwaleswasp. We've come off the wrong side in quite a few one score games. That is obviously our fault for a variety of reasons but if you convert half of those to wins and make one solid decision in the final two minutes v Clermont we could be looking at an outside chance of top 4 and a European semi/final. That is obviously all if's but's and maybe's but it does serve to illustrate that we are not coming from a mile back and needing wholesale change. We just need a bit of fine tuning, some clear heads and a shift in confidence.
-
Agree with the Westwaleswasp. We've come off the wrong side in quite a few one score games. That is obviously our fault for a variety of reasons but if you convert half of those to wins and make one solid decision in the final two minutes v Clermont we could be looking at an outside chance of top 4 and a European semi/final. That is obviously all if's but's and maybe's but it does serve to illustrate that we are not coming from a mile back and needing wholesale change. We just need a bit of fine tuning, some clear heads and a shift in confidence.
If we played better we'd be more successful...
-
Agree with the Westwaleswasp. We've come off the wrong side in quite a few one score games. That is obviously our fault for a variety of reasons but if you convert half of those to wins and make one solid decision in the final two minutes v Clermont we could be looking at an outside chance of top 4 and a European semi/final. That is obviously all if's but's and maybe's but it does serve to illustrate that we are not coming from a mile back and needing wholesale change. We just need a bit of fine tuning, some clear heads and a shift in confidence.
If we played better we'd be more successful...
Very much so. But it feels very similar to before Dai left to me. There's a lot of very good things showing through, and not much is needed to flip it.
This is a chiefs side who were very strong and out for blood, and yet in the first half they were lucky they were so close (our errors handed them a lot of points). Yes, it all started to fall apart, and went from bad to worse, but that was a long way from a plucky first half where we played out of our skins with grit and determination holding off the exeter tide etc, only for the dam to burst. That was a game that we were in control for the first half, with hiccups giving them points. Unfortunately we then moved to all hiccups and no successes, and then we gave up.
Huge issues definitely, but there's still very much a top 4 team there, it's getting the performances to click. As others have said, it's now that Blackett faces his real test.
-
Agree with the Westwaleswasp. We've come off the wrong side in quite a few one score games. That is obviously our fault for a variety of reasons but if you convert half of those to wins and make one solid decision in the final two minutes v Clermont we could be looking at an outside chance of top 4 and a European semi/final. That is obviously all if's but's and maybe's but it does serve to illustrate that we are not coming from a mile back and needing wholesale change. We just need a bit of fine tuning, some clear heads and a shift in confidence.
If we played better we'd be more successful...
Very much so. But it feels very similar to before Dai left to me. There's a lot of very good things showing through, and not much is needed to flip it.
This is a chiefs side who were very strong and out for blood, and yet in the first half they were lucky they were so close (our errors handed them a lot of points). Yes, it all started to fall apart, and went from bad to worse, but that was a long way from a plucky first half where we played out of our skins with grit and determination holding off the exeter tide etc, only for the dam to burst. That was a game that we were in control for the first half, with hiccups giving them points. Unfortunately we then moved to all hiccups and no successes, and then we gave up.
Huge issues definitely, but there's still very much a top 4 team there, it's getting the performances to click. As others have said, it's now that Blackett faces his real test.
+ 1. Spot on.
-
Agree Raggs - that's the point I was making. We're not far off. Of course we should have converted those near misses to wins and it's our mistakes that have stopped us doing that. But I maintain we are still a top side short on confidence.
-
Agree Raggs - that's the point I was making. We're not far off. Of course we should have converted those near misses to wins and it's our mistakes that have stopped us doing that. But I maintain we are still a top side short on confidence.
That’s why a sports shrink might help.
-
Couldn't do any harm could it.
-
I would be amazed, and disappointed, if wasps weren't already employing some kind of sports psychologist....
-
Blackett quashes Billy Searle rumours: https://twitter.com/talkMacca/status/1384864904491028481
They are categorically NOT looking for a 10. Maybe down the line someone who's 2nd position is 10 could come onto the radar - but they're a long way off that. Jacob Umaga & Charlie Atkinson could be the 10's for the next 10 years
-
But who's third? You need three players in case of injury or call up, or just flat out rest.
That person doesn't have to be 2005-era Dan Carter, but it needs to be someone.
-
But who's third? You need three players in case of injury or call up, or just flat out rest.
That person doesn't have to be 2005-era Dan Carter, but it needs to be someone.
Miller I would have thought. Mills could arguably fill in too (like Gopps).
-
I'm pretty sure I heard the commentator mention on Sunday that we are after Devoto. I know this rumour has been around for a couple seasons but he could 3rd choice FH
-
Would Devoto want to play 3rd fiddle?
-
I agree with Raggs's summation of the Chiefs game and Shugs' comments earlier- those fine margins mean so much, it is all about expectation, and when we expect to win it acts as a feedback loop as we do. Momentum is overused, but it would not take much to turn it around in a lot of those games. It reminds me of Wales vs Australia in that 07-13 period, 7 single digit wins, several by less than 3.
-
Blackett quashes Billy Searle rumours: https://twitter.com/talkMacca/status/1384864904491028481
They are categorically NOT looking for a 10. Maybe down the line someone who's 2nd position is 10 could come onto the radar - but they're a long way off that. Jacob Umaga & Charlie Atkinson could be the 10's for the next 10 years
This is the right way to go for me. We have three players in Miller, Gopperth and Mills who could fill in there as cover for Umaga and Atkinson. We have other, more pressing positions to fill.
-
I'm pretty sure I heard the commentator mention on Sunday that we are after Devoto. I know this rumour has been around for a couple seasons but he could 3rd choice FH
This came after the service station rumour - Baxter said he’s in contract next year - also not sure you’d leave a starting spot with the domestic and European champs for any amount of money to play for us at the moment
-
I'm pretty sure I heard the commentator mention on Sunday that we are after Devoto. I know this rumour has been around for a couple seasons but he could 3rd choice FH
This came after the service station rumour - Baxter said he’s in contract next year - also not sure you’d leave a starting spot with the domestic and European champs for any amount of money to play for us at the moment
I'll add that when we played Exeter at the Ricoh many here weren't impressed by Devoto and questioned why we'd need him. Then at the weekend he got motm when we were awful.
I agree with the sentiments that Devoto would never choose us unless his salary went up significantly. Back when we were chasing top 4 maybe, but not now.
-
Devoto would be an ideal player for us but have to agree he is almost certainly unlikely to want to come to us, even if he isn't in contract.
I don't think Miller is a Premiership quality 10. I'm not sure the last time Mills played 10 either. And Jimmy is really not going to be able to add much in another 12 months' time. We need a Burns/Priestland/Flood/ Andy Goode type 10, someone who is experienced, has been around the block, but won't expect to play every week or be on a massive deal and could do a job in big games. Not easy, I know!
-
How many prem quality 10s are going to be willing to be third in line?
-
Well realistically they'd probably be 2nd or first given that Atkinson is still effectively a child and has a lot of learning still to do.
-
Well realistically they'd probably be 2nd or first given that Atkinson is still effectively a child and has a lot of learning still to do.
Peej, he's 19. Would you like to be called a child when you were 19?
-
Well realistically they'd probably be 2nd or first given that Atkinson is still effectively a child and has a lot of learning still to do.
I'm inclined to agree, Atkinson is a talent, but still young enough to justify a savvy veteran fly half in the squad. Now Gopperth, Mills and Miller are all capable, but are utility backs. Then the problem is having a player sit behind 2 younger guys. Very difficult situation.
-
Surely "savvy veteran" is a phrase that could have been written for Gopperth. I don't think we'll get anyone as good, willing to play a bit part. In any case, Blackett has categorically stated we're not looking for anyone. Reading between the lines I think we'll see Lee target the front row to strengthen.
-
Hence the phrase "effectively".
I think that actually you could approach a current Prem 2nd choice fly half and say, "hey, here's a chance for you to come in and really push to be number 1 somewhere." Do you think Burns has gone to Tigers thinking he'll be picked over Ford?
-
Except Ford will be away with England a lot whilst Umaga is unlikely to be.
I'm happy with Jacob, Charlie and Jimmy as our Fly Half options.