Borthwick to Tigers post RWC

[Hartung]

or it could be that these sausage stuffers are top notch and maybe he isn't so bad.

10 years at Bath - nominated for player of the year during that time
6 years at Saracens - captain of the team for 2 or 3 of those years
57 caps for England - captain for ~2 years

assistant forwards coach for Japan for 3 years during their world cup run in 2015
attracted attention of cash rich Bristol after the world cup as a forwards coach
now england forwards coach


That's not really the CV of a complete luddite who's "a bit dim".

You think they're going to change their story?

[BG]

The feedback from the England Wasps lads about him was very complimentary indeed.

I presume this refers to recent or current Eng squad members.. if so, I think you have to take those compliments with a pinch of salt. Those players aren't going to slag off a current Eng coach or someone who might become their boss at a later stage.

I'm talking about their feedback once back at Wasps, not what they've said to the press while with England.

That's what I presumed you meant.. even offering an opinion amongst club friends in a coffee shop away from England can come back and haunt you if you're still a player.

As a current player you would always be wary you'd end up being under that coach later on.

People who may have been complimentary were probably asked a specific question..

"Is your boss a good and talented person "

[wasps]

or it could be that maybe he isn't so bad.

10 years at Bath - nominated for player of the year during that time
6 years at Saracens - captain of the team for 2 or 3 of those years
57 caps for England - captain for ~2 years

assistant forwards coach for Japan for 3 years during their world cup run in 2015
attracted attention of cash rich Bristol after the world cup as a forwards coach
now england forwards coach


That's not really the CV of a complete luddite who's "a bit dim".

[westwaleswasp]

He suffered in the media, who wanted everyone to be either a Martin Johnson like man mountains or LBND like charismatic leaders. He came across as thoughtful and not inspirational, which was not what they wanted.
I have no idea how he is as a coach, haven't really followed his career that closely, so will keep counsel on that.