A question about Sarries

[wasps]

I was chatting to my dad about Saracens today.

He's an all round sports fan (with the exception of football) who follows rugby and watches when it's on TV, but doesn't go to the level of reading about it online, or joining forums etc.
As such, he's general Joe public rugby fan.


He'd heard about the fine and the points deduction, so I was interested to hear his thoughts on it.


First thing was that he thought it was a bit of a joke because "surely no one obeys a salary cap", and "everyone used to unofficially pay players in the amateur era"

I obviously tried to set him straight, but I think this is the belief of the general rugby fan out there.
Most will feel that Saracens have been caught and have been punished, for something that is probably being done by everyone


There's not enough of a public noise being made about this, so it will almost certainly blow over

[Vespula Vulgaris]

I met up with Geech at a charity event last week and asked him about it.

Wray is a great guy, done a lot for rugby, has built a great squad with a good ethic, but was naive sums up his thoughts.

However someone else who is senior in the rugby community said they couldn't believe the cheek of the guy posing with a smile next a trophy he essentially stole.

So it's not all one sided.

[BG]

The EPL clubs and PRL met yesterday but nothing has yet been mentioned about the content of the meetings or the outcome.

How long will it be before something is leaked to one of the newspapers?

[Neils]

The EPL clubs and PRL met yesterday but nothing has yet been mentioned about the content of the meetings or the outcome.

How long will it be before something is leaked to one of the newspapers?

Article in Mail Online saying they are saying nothing whilst still conveying anger at Wray.

[Neils]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-7782377/Premiership-club-bosses-remain-tight-lipped-Saracens-salary-cap-scandal.html

[mike909]

A special audit would enable a forensic analysis of Wray’s businesses to be done and would help ease the concerns of many of Saracens’ rivals

Would it (ease concerns) ? Given that the players with "co investments" still have access to them, Sarries are still benefiting from the cheating - or financial doping - and given they could put a side out - lacking Goode and Williams with 500+ caps and can start a game with 5 of the England starting pack plus several other Lions, it doesn't look like a team that's had to make changes

The financial doping aspect of paying up front an investment will likely enable retention of players who look like they are now only being paid up to the salary cap

And the lack of contrition mentioned in the article extends to many of the supporters I meet online elsewhere, who either bury their heads in the sand or suggest it was a "technicality"

Clubs and supporters need to know and it be demonstrated that they now comply and changes have been made. Otherwise - what's the point of the rules?

[BG]

The confusing element concerns the co-investments. Were they part of the infrigment or not.. if not then surely this will create a free-for-all by other rich owners who can inject a massive investment into a part shared company owned by a player.. afterwhich, in future years the player can presumably draw down on that initial investment or sell a property that's risen in value

[Neils]

It is not confusing! They are cheats. The whole organisation from top to bottom are suspect and should be canned.

[Gaz]

Frankly, I don't care whether their squad is on ten bob a week for the rest of their careers. That squad was assembled illegally and there should be a) contrition from Wray (no chance!), and b) a re-balancing of the squad (I don't know how that could be done).

In the absence of those two initiatives I see the only alternative that will appease us, THE PAYING PUNTERS! is to relegate them immediately - retain the points deduction in the Championship so they have at least two seasons out of our way, enforce a multi-year transfer ban, and banish Wray from the game.

If their academy is as good as I am being repeatedly told, they should easily bounce back for the 21/22 season. Won't be long before they claim Elliot Daly as a homegrown academy product turned WC finalist and B&I Lion.

Sorry for the rant, still disillusioned with PRL and this whole situation.

[mike909]

Frankly, I don't care whether their squad is on ten bob a week for the rest of their careers. That squad was assembled illegally and there should be a) contrition from Wray (no chance!), and b) a re-balancing of the squad (I don't know how that could be done).

In the absence of those two initiatives I see the only alternative that will appease us, THE PAYING PUNTERS! is to relegate them immediately - retain the points deduction in the Championship so they have at least two seasons out of our way, enforce a multi-year transfer ban, and banish Wray from the game.

If their academy is as good as I am being repeatedly told, they should easily bounce back for the 21/22 season. Won't be long before they claim Elliot Daly as a homegrown academy product turned WC finalist and B&I Lion.

Sorry for the rant, still disillusioned with PRL and this whole situation.

+1

We've all been defrauded

[Heathen]

Before the news broke, I was told that they needed to reduce this year's players wages by £900,000.

[matelot22]

Before the news broke, I was told that they needed to reduce this year's players wages by £900,000.

Even that doesn't seem like a huge amount when you look at their squad. What does that equate to? 2 of their big names?

[Neils]

Before the news broke, I was told that they needed to reduce this year's players wages by £900,000.

Even that doesn't seem like a huge amount when you look at their squad. What does that equate to? 2 of their big names?

Especially with both Farrell and Itchy being rumoured to be on £750k - ok one will be marquee but still shows the level of pay.

[BG]

Can you have 2 English marquee players on your books? I thought one had to be a "foreign"

[Marlow Nick]

One marquee must have been with the club for at least 2 years. The other can only be declared marquee as they join from outside the PRL. So Farrel and Itoje cannot both be marquee. Daly can't be. Williams could be but only if he was declared marquee as he joined (at which time there were other expensive imports on the books).

Of course the cynics amongst us don't believe that will impact Saracens too much. They got caught breaking the cap rules by an estimated £500k per annum but my guess is there is well over £1m per annum extra payments which either remain hidden from the auditors or Nigel's lawyers have managed to twist the rules enough for them to be considered acceptable. Whatever the truth it's clear Saracens pay no attention to the explicitly stated and agreed spirit of the cap.