Dai

[BG]

Changing the coaches has worked for some teams, but not all. Leicester hasn't been mentioned much, but surely an example of how making a change could make things worse.

The example of the Leicester is an interesting one. They always try to promote from within or use people they've known before. The same could be said about Bath (currently Hooper). The problem there is that the players/coaches being promoted from within have learnt processes and coaching style from the previous sacked coach. Their vision, playing style and knowledge base is extremely restricted.

Glos, Wuss, Saints, Bristol, LI have brought in coaches from different leagues who presumably have brought a fresh outlook and process to coaching, training and playing styles.

[HDAWG]

BG, spot on +1

[Heathen]

Taking the football analogy, watching Everton on Wednesday to yesterday was unreal. The bounce and renergisation they got from having a new man at the helm was incredible.

[Neils]

Taking the football analogy, watching Everton on Wednesday to yesterday was unreal. The bounce and renergisation they got from having a new man at the helm was incredible.

But the new man was an Everton man through and through.

[AKWasp]

Would be good to see a former Wasp brought in as head coach who may have learnt their trade away from the prem.

Would also understand if the board wanted to start straight from scratch with someone completely new.

As an Arsenal fan, were in that debate currently by keeping Ljungberg who has been promoted from within, hiring Arteta (a former captain) who has learnt his trade as Guardiolas assistant at Man City or getting someone completely different like Allegri who has been extremely successful in Italy.

Long winded and football based so understand if it’s bored a few but the sentiment is that any possibility is exciting to us and you don’t know which one is the right choice until you make the jump

[Vespula Vulgaris]

I think it's interesting that in all the potential coaches that have been mentioned Stephen Jones didn't crop up much at all.

I'd love to see him coming in to work under Dai again now he has much more experience.

[HDAWG]

VV, appears he's backs coach for new Wales structure under Pivac. Doubt he'll leave for a while sadly...

[wasps]

I was interested to look back and see how quickly Northampton turned it around after sacking Mallinder.

It appears he was removed on 12th December 2017.
Saints then won 2 of their next 9 league fixtures
And 4 of the remaining 12 games that season.


Not only that, but their losses after removing Mallinder included

14-35 at home to Exeter
50-21 away to Quin's
32-9 away to Bath
13-63 at home to Saracens


I keep seeing Saints held up as a reason why we should shake up the entire coaching team, but it's a hell of a stretch to suggest that it was an instant success.

Anything resembling those kind of results would almost certainly see us relegated and bring outrage from the already agitated fans

[wasps]

And for the record, after appointing Ackerman, Gloucester won 1 of their remaining 4 fixtures that season... And after a full preseason, started the next with 1 win in 3.

Admittedly, it improved after that.



What I think I'm trying to say is that for every team where you may see an immediate improvement when implementing a new coach, there's plenty of examples where things don't improve immediately too

[mike909]

I mentioned Saints as they had a long term head coach and a team that had lost its way, and quite quickly. And - a head coach who had refused to consider change/help

I don't know if Wasps are in the same situation, but Saints did survive with an interim coach. The main man came later.

[westwaleswasp]

I think it's interesting that in all the potential coaches that have been mentioned Stephen Jones didn't crop up much at all.

I'd love to see him coming in to work under Dai again now he has much more experience.

Hope his coaching fares better than the restaurant he opened, which was pretty underwhelming I must say. I believe it shut down, not sure if it reopened.
He is a Scarlets man though, they are a different breed- and I can't see him moving to England if he can stay in Wales, I imagine there will always be a rugby job here for him if he wants it.

[wasps]

I mentioned Saints as they had a long term head coach and a team that had lost its way, and quite quickly. And - a head coach who had refused to consider change/help

I don't know if Wasps are in the same situation, but Saints did survive with an interim coach. The main man came later.

It appears that Saints survived that season because they'd got points on the board early in the season.

Boyd was appointed at the end of January 2018, and immediately oversaw a run of 1 win in 6 games.




As I've pointed out previously, I don't want to see Dai go.
However, I'm less attached to the rest of the coaching setup.
What bothers me is that I do currently see signs of improvement, and I'm really worried that if we were to try to start again mid season we'd actually be worse off in the short term.


I always feel that if there's a need to replace coaches or DoR's, it should be done at the end of the season, or at least when you're mathematically safe.
If nothing else, it's only fair to the incoming coaching team that they get a preseason with the players

[mike909]

Sorry to be a pedant - Boyd was announced in Jan 18, and would become Director of Rugby at Northampton Saints as of August 2018. (wiki)  Australian coach Alan Gaffney joined the club on an interim basis until the end of the 2017-18 Premiership Rugby campaign, who worked alongside Alan Dickens at the helm

I'm ambivalent about who goes if that's decided what is needed - but if its concluded that the club needs change, being nice about it shouldn't come into it - we need points more than anything else.

[HDAWG]

I agree. Quins kept Kingston for remainder of season before replacing him. Same should happen with us. Unless a temporary/immediate improvement can be found.

[wasps]

I agree. Quins kept Kingston for remainder of season before replacing him. Same should happen with us. Unless a temporary/immediate improvement can be found.

If there truly was some way to guarantee an up turn in fortunes in the short term by replacing some of the coaching team, and for that to be combined with medium/long (ish) term improvements too, then it'd be hard to argue against.

It's just my feeling that it's impossible to guarantee it, the grass isn't always greener (see Leicester), and even if it is, it seems that it usually takes a pre season to find it. (See Saints, Gloucester)


As I genuinely feel that we're close to finding ways to win games, I'm really nervous that making major changes could cost us more than staying pat.




Mike...
Apologies, I just took the date of a BBC article announcing Boyd, rather than reading the contents of it