Always a Wasp

Author Topic: England vs Tonga  (Read 5939 times)

Raggs

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Re: England vs Tonga
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2021, 09:14:53 PM »
What a complete waste of time. Lawes at 6. Why. Curry at 8. Why. Where is the promised (by Jones) change in style going to be generated. What will we learn by playing Youngs/Farrell/George etc etc etc etc. We’re playing Tonga for goodness sake.

Lawes, as reluctant as I am to say it, has been improving at 6 with saints. I don't know if he's international quality yet, but he's a good player regardless, great lineout option, decent wider carrier, and another solid player in defence.

I don't get the fuss about Curry at 8 to be honest. The only time the number on his shirt matters is in a scrum. He's shown himself to be capable of controlling the ball at the back, has good hands to be able to pass it out if needed, and has the determination in the carry to not lose ground when trying to grab a few yards for a clearance kick. Now the 5m scrum has virtually been removed from the game, how often do we honestly see 8s carry from the base?

One nice advantage of having curry at 8, is that Underhill can break off the scrum, chop the player and then Curry is immediately there for a potential turnover.

Wombles

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Re: England vs Tonga
« Reply #16 on: November 05, 2021, 02:30:33 AM »
Youngs and Farrell need to prove that they can play a fast game with quick ruck ball and playing on the gain line. They need to provide quick service to those outside them to demonstrate they can allow the back line to work quickly, and pose a threat themselves by attacking the gain line, looking for soft shoulders, gaps in the line, and be prepared to off load in contact, get up and be ready to receive the ball once again. They also have to be able to do this for every moment they are on the field of play.
If it is slow, ponderous, or full of up n unders with limited phase play it will show they are simply playing to a pre determined and limited plan, which not only exposes their weaknesses, but also -in my mind- that Eddie Jones does not trust his players, and is not realising the huge potential we know is available.

It will be an interesting watch.

Bloke in North Dorset

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Re: England vs Tonga
« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2021, 07:14:11 AM »
I think Lawes goes on the team sheet because of his abilities defending mauls, he’s 2nd to Launcberry in that department then the look at who else the have before deciding where to play him, hence him not having a set position. 

Quote
If it is slow, ponderous, or full of up n unders with limited phase play it will show they are simply playing to a pre determined and limited plan

I hope I’m wrong, but I think May and Radwan are in the side as kick chase wingers rather than ball carrying, break defences in broken play, go hunting for work, wingers. 

westwaleswasp

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Re: England vs Tonga
« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2021, 07:42:57 AM »
Hard for this game to tell us meaningful stuff given the match last week.

Shugs

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Re: England vs Tonga
« Reply #19 on: November 05, 2021, 08:56:39 AM »
Completely agree that Lawes can play six and Curry can play 8. But we know exactly what they bring. We’re playing Tonga. We’re going to win easily. If we get to the 6N or the RWC or even just the “bigger” autumn internationals and one of them is injured we’ve wasted the chance to give the likes of Dombrandt some valuable international game time. I appreciate the mantra of “you’re always a better player out of the team” but these games should be about broadening our pool of internationally experienced players should we ever need to dip into it.

Raggs

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Re: England vs Tonga
« Reply #20 on: November 05, 2021, 09:08:44 AM »
Completely agree that Lawes can play six and Curry can play 8. But we know exactly what they bring. We’re playing Tonga. We’re going to win easily. If we get to the 6N or the RWC or even just the “bigger” autumn internationals and one of them is injured we’ve wasted the chance to give the likes of Dombrandt some valuable international game time. I appreciate the mantra of “you’re always a better player out of the team” but these games should be about broadening our pool of internationally experienced players should we ever need to dip into it.

30% of that squad is new (or basically new). We'd learn nothing if most of it was. We're not throwing out 50% of the team, so we don't need replacements for 50% of them upto speed. We need the few players that'll potentially be pushing for starting berths in a year or so, and others targeting the bench, to be familiar with the players around them and the system. Sending in a completely fresh team will do nothing.

Smith probably would have been starting had he actually trained, but it seems really harsh to throw a player in, especially a 10 like him, who needs to know what to expect from his team mates, into a game without developing any sort of rapport.

It may also only be Tonga this week, but there are a lot bigger games coming up, against battle hardened teams, so we need to try and get our test players upto speed as well.

Yes, the ABs have put out a largely 2nd string (though only sort of, many of them have been backups/picks in the past) against Italy, but they're largely at the end of their international season and have had all the time in training and in matches to get things upto speed.

DGP Wasp

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Re: England vs Tonga
« Reply #21 on: November 05, 2021, 10:18:21 AM »
Farrell has tested positive for Covid.  Out of tomorrow's game and presumably Australia next weekend too.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/59176625

Raggs

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Re: England vs Tonga
« Reply #22 on: November 05, 2021, 10:27:06 AM »
Farrell has tested positive for Covid.  Out of tomorrow's game and presumably Australia next weekend too.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/59176625

Re-testing him I guess in the hopes that it was a false positive?

DGP Wasp

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Re: England vs Tonga
« Reply #23 on: November 05, 2021, 10:39:23 AM »
Sounds like it.  Initial report at the time I posted it said he was ruled out.  Not sure what the testing regime is within the squad.  Would have thought they'd all be doing proper PCR tests regularly, rather than risk the lateral flow lottery.  In which case it seems unlikely that a subsequent test would overturn it.  And even if it does, who's to say which of the 2 results was actually inaccurate?

Raggs

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Re: England vs Tonga
« Reply #24 on: November 05, 2021, 10:46:58 AM »
Sounds like it.  Initial report at the time I posted it said he was ruled out.  Not sure what the testing regime is within the squad.  Would have thought they'd all be doing proper PCR tests regularly, rather than risk the lateral flow lottery.  In which case it seems unlikely that a subsequent test would overturn it.  And even if it does, who's to say which of the 2 results was actually inaccurate?

I'd imagine they do lateral flow daily, or close to, then PCR once a week (or if there's been a positive lateral in the camp).

I believe I've read something about if you have a positive PCR, then two negative PCRs afterwards, you can overturn the original, basically best of 3 :D.

baldpaul101

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Re: England vs Tonga
« Reply #25 on: November 05, 2021, 10:50:35 AM »
So what do we reckon:

1. Smith to start with Slade/Furbank/Malins covering 10?
2. Slade to start, Smith stays on the bench?
3. Furbank to start Smith on the bench?
4. Ford called up to start?
5. Someone else playing out of position?


JonnyD

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Re: England vs Tonga
« Reply #26 on: November 05, 2021, 10:52:08 AM »
So what do we reckon:

1. Smith to start with Slade/Furbank/Malins covering 10?
2. Slade to start, Smith stays on the bench?
3. Furbank to start Smith on the bench?
4. Ford called up to start?
5. Someone else playing out of position?

Ford straight in to start without any training
with the group.
Or Curry to FH

baldpaul101

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Re: England vs Tonga
« Reply #27 on: November 05, 2021, 10:56:53 AM »
I forgot one:

6. Mitchell to 10 (no worries about replacing him on the bench, Youngs plays almost the entire game anyway!)

Bloke in North Dorset

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Re: England vs Tonga
« Reply #28 on: November 05, 2021, 01:42:00 PM »
Sounds like it.  Initial report at the time I posted it said he was ruled out.  Not sure what the testing regime is within the squad.  Would have thought they'd all be doing proper PCR tests regularly, rather than risk the lateral flow lottery.  In which case it seems unlikely that a subsequent test would overturn it.  And even if it does, who's to say which of the 2 results was actually inaccurate?
Last time I saw any data on it the chances of a false negative were orders of magnitude less than the chance of a false positive. 

Shugs

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Re: England vs Tonga
« Reply #29 on: November 05, 2021, 03:07:42 PM »
Farrell to 10 - with COVID.