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Author Topic: Judgement Day - or is it?  (Read 6677 times)

Neils

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Judgement Day - or is it?
« on: February 14, 2023, 07:06:05 AM »
Well the alloted day has arrived.

Do we get to know whether anything is positive or will it be negative. I assume like all deadline days there will be a cut off time but who knows when - 10 am, noon, 3 pm or close of play?

How long before the ever efficient RFU pronounce? Will it take them a number of days - who the hell knows.

Will the Worcester situation confuse or delay matters. I suppose if we did reach an agreement with Atlas that may well be in jeopardy much to the delight of some.

Cross fingers folks.
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WonkyWasp

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Re: Judgement Day - or is it?
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2023, 07:34:21 AM »
Good luck to Wuss  and Wasps.  I'm hoping for the best for both.  Please God.

Skippy

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Re: Judgement Day - or is it?
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2023, 07:40:51 AM »
The trick is to have zero expectations, as that generally leaves the most room for an upside when all is done.

That said, as the Ahh Eff You All is involved there?s always the possibility that it will plumb new depths below zero.

Shugs

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Re: Judgement Day - or is it?
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2023, 08:15:08 AM »
The RFU are involved. It?s very possible we?ll hear via a leak in some form of the media than anything official.

NellyWellyWaspy

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Re: Judgement Day - or is it?
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2023, 10:43:17 AM »
Let us suppose for one moment that the improbably happens, and Wasps submit a 'final' proposal by this deadline.

There is no indication on how quickly the RFU might respond, whether that response would be made public, or whether there will be some back and forth haggling.

Indeed, Wasps could have made their response days ago, if indeed they are able.

The response may have been a decision tree.

Our preferred ground is xxx, but if you will not approve that, our second choice is yyy and so on.

I am sort of hoping that, if Wasps' first choice is Sixways for the ground, that the RFU say no, too far away from Coventry, and it belongs to Warriors (even though Atlas say Warriors is dead). The way Atlas have treaded the fans of Warriors is bad, and makes me feel like Deja Vu, SISU all over.

I am hoping that the RFU insist that the ground choice is temporary, and that progress is already underway for a more permanent ground. Not we are looking around ... but, that we have a heads of agreement with a land owner and that already the site is at least designated by way of current use, or proposed in a local plan, as a sports facility with parking etc.

bigad82

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Re: Judgement Day - or is it?
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2023, 10:52:41 AM »
Website has changed saying confirmed return for 23/24 season.
Nothing else just that.

Neils

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Re: Judgement Day - or is it?
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2023, 10:54:51 AM »
Website has changed saying confirmed return for 23/24 season.
Nothing else just that.

Hasn't changed since the December date as far as I can see.
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bigad82

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Re: Judgement Day - or is it?
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2023, 11:03:46 AM »
Website has changed saying confirmed return for 23/24 season.
Nothing else just that.

Hasn't changed since the December date as far as I can see.
Your right my phone only downloaded the header.Whent on desktop and got the statement from 16/12022.

Neils

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Re: Judgement Day - or is it?
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2023, 11:32:47 AM »
Worcester Warriors & Wasps: What happens next for relegated Premiership pair?
By Ged ScottBBC Sport

Last updated on

22 minutes ago22 minutes ago.From the section English Rugby
Flags bearing Worcester Warriors and Wasps' club crests
Wasps and Worcester expect to find out what will happen to them next season on 14 February

Professional rugby in the Midlands is in a bit of a mess.

The 2022-23 season, which began with two Midlands-based clubs in the Premiership - Worcester Warriors and Wasps - will end with none, after both suffered financial collapse, went into administration and were relegated.

And it is still not clear what will happen, either at Worcester's home Sixways or wherever Wasps will play in 2023-24.

The latest deadline set by the Rugby Football Union is 17:00 GMT on 14 February - and the two clubs are in contrasting states.

    Duckworth family 'devastated' by rebranding
    BBC Hereford & Worcester's latest Warriors' podcast

Wasps have a league to enter next season, but no ground.

Worcester have a ground, but no league. And no name either.

But, other than the two clubs one day merging, a not unworkable theory that has already been mooted in certain sections of the media, how is this all going to play out?
Warriors make a name for themselves

Worcester's new owners, Atlas Group, last week announced a plan to eradicate all the perceived "negativity" of the recent past by changing the club name to Sixways Rugby.

They also invited another Worcestershire side, fourth-tier Stourbridge, to play at Sixways as their first team - in an attempt to avoid a tumble too far down the national league ladder.

That simply led to that aforementioned "negativity" being replaced by outright hostility as angry fans queued up to register their complaints to BBC Hereford & Worcester.

After further discussions, and in light of the fans' fury, Atlas have agreed to consider a change of heart on that.

But, until that is decided, at a meeting between owners and fans at Sixways on Saturday, they are a club with no name for the next few days.
Former Worcester Warriors CEO Jim O'Toole at Sixways
Jim O'Toole stood down as Worcester chief executive in June 2017
Where will Wasps play?

Wasps severed ties with the Coventry Building Society Arena when the ground's ownership went into administration - and it was immediately bought by Mike Ashley's Frasers Group in November.

Wasps were then bought on 16 December - the same day they were told they would have a place in the Championship next season - by HALO22 Limited, a company owned by Christopher Holland.

Their new owners have also consulted at boardroom level with Solihull Moors. But a deal could now be in place for the former London amateur side to become primary tenants at Worcester - their fifth home in 27 years, having also played at QPR's Loftus Road, Adams Park, High Wycombe and in Coventry since their first team left their original home in Acton, at Twyford Avenue, in 1996.

Wasps' move to Worcester as tenants could even be announced as early as Tuesday.
New Wasps chief executive Andy Scott
Wasps appointed Andy Scott as chief executive in December
Who will Worcester be?

It was not made clear by the RFU in December that the Atlas Group - headed by Irish businessmen Jim O'Toole and James Sandford - failed the owners' test, despite being chosen as preferred bidders by the administrators Begbies Traynor.

It has since been reported that they did fail - and now also confirmed by the RFU.

It has not yet been confirmed whether they have now actually passed that test, although contracts were exchanged last week. And Atlas co-owner Sandford told BBC Hereford & Worcester that they had been in a meeting on Monday with the RFU and the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport.

Their plan last week was to abandon the bid to play in the Championship in the 2023-24 season, align with relatively neighbouring Stourbridge - and start next season in National League Two West. But Stour are bottom of the league, having won just once in 18 games this season - and even had to concede one of those matches as they could not raise a team.

That needs voting on by Stourbridge club members. A proposal was discussed at an 'informal' meeting on Friday at their Stourton Park home, at which no vote was taken.

It could be a clever tactic from the new Warriors owners. It would avoid having to go too far down the English rugby pyramid.

If they could supplement the Stour team with enough players to help keep them up, the team - under whichever name - would then start in the fourth tier, rather than the fifth, next season - just two levels below the Championship.

But, for that to happen, any new players must be signed by the league transfer deadline on Friday.
A general view of Worcester Warriors' Sixways home
Sixways, the home of Worcester Warriors, was opened in 1998
Will there be Championship rugby at Sixways in 2023?

If Wasps complete a deal to move in as tenants, Championship rugby would be assured at Sixways in 2023-24.

But is there any chance that there could be two Championship clubs sharing the same stadium?

Talks are ongoing between Atlas, the DCMS and the RFU, who have said that the door remains open. And 14 February is scheduled to be the date when Midlands rugby fans are set to find out exactly how.
Questions that still need answering

The RFU made four key points when they rejected the original Atlas bid for Championship rugby for Worcester Warriors on 16 December:

    The RFU is concerned by the public statement from the bidders that they are prepared to acquire the site and develop it without a rugby offering.
    The RFU does not have comfort that the business plan can be funded, nor that rugby is at the centre of the proposal for the business which is an American medical services company.
    The RFU will now work with the administrator (Begbies Traynor) to enable alternative bids that would secure professional rugby at Sixways and to work together in a timetable to enable that to happen.
    The RFU urges the administrator not to progress any sale that does not guarantee a future for rugby within the local community.

Other players in the game

In the short term, regardless of what might happen next season with Wasps, the Atlas Group plan to share the artificial six-and-a-half-year-old Sixways pitch for the rest of the season with their existing tenants, Worcester Women and non-league football side Worcester Raiders.

The Premier 15s side have held talks with the new owners in the hope that they can carry on renting - but that deal runs out at the end of the season and they could potentially lose their Premiership place if they lost use of Sixways.

Despite their modest budget Worcester Women are in mid-table - and have now been backed by a 10-year deal with new sponsors Cube.

The tenancy agreement with eighth-tier football side Raiders also expires at the end of the season.

Worcester Rugby Football Club, the original amateur club from whom Worcester Warriors were created in the 1990s, have also expressed their sadness at only learning of the Atlas/Stourbridge plan via social media - especially as O'Toole has been one of their club members since his days as Warriors chief executive.

Although the Warriors and Worcester RFC have been separate entities since 2016, the amateur club still reside on the same site at Sixways, all paid for by late former club benefactor Cecil Duckworth. And they have concerns at how their club will be affected by the proposed tie-up with Stourbridge.
Former Worcester director of rugby Steve Diamond pictured at Sixways
Steve Diamond first joined Worcester Warriors in November 2021, taking over first-team responsibilities two months later and then becoming director of rugby

The final players in the game are the Steve Diamond and Adam Hewitt consortium, the other main bidders for Worcester Warriors when the club was first put open to offers in October.

Former director of rugby Diamond, who was in charge when Warriors memorably won their last game against Newcastle in September, says he and Hewitt had RFU approval and had the financial backing to to clear debts to the creditors - and that had their offer been accepted they would have been playing in the Championship this September, still under the club's existing name.
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Neils

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Re: Judgement Day - or is it?
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2023, 11:35:08 AM »
So 5 pm is the deadline time.
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jamestaylor002

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Re: Judgement Day - or is it?
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2023, 12:15:32 PM »
So, as I understand it from the thread yesterday, it's a 5pm deadline for Wasps to submit their proposal(s) and then it will take X amount of time for the RFU to decide.

As Neils said, we're probably more likely to hear rumours/leaks from journalists on Twitter before we get an official statement from the RFU. How long that will all take I suppose is anyone's guess.

WonkyWasp

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Re: Judgement Day - or is it?
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2023, 12:18:35 PM »
Neils  -  10 out of 10/ A plus*  for that incredible  piece of writing.  Thank you, in admiration.

Neils

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Re: Judgement Day - or is it?
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2023, 12:26:49 PM »
Just a concerned supporter missing my long car journeys and near heart attacks with our defending!!
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baldpaul101

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Re: Judgement Day - or is it?
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2023, 03:23:51 PM »
Surely new wasps have to say something today? Even if its just "we've responded to the RFUs issues by the stated deadline" just to show us that:
1. something IS happening
2. the ball is in the RFUs court.

Neils

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Re: Judgement Day - or is it?
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2023, 03:52:23 PM »
Surely new wasps have to say something today? Even if its just "we've responded to the RFUs issues by the stated deadline" just to show us that:
1. something IS happening
2. the ball is in the RFUs court.

You would hope so but -
Wasps have kept everything firmly under wraps up until now unlike the other lot and might be under instructions from the RFU to keep quiet until they, the RFU,  make an announcement.
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