Eddie's England

[Rossm]

I've just finished watching the entire game again - but with the benefit of hindsight. BTW: This is just my own opinion of course.

I think England started to lose it when, in the 25th minute at 21-0, they went for an easy 3 points in front of the posts. They had the momentum, Scotland were reeling, and they should have continued with the pressure. Were they in fact starting to tire by then? In the 27th minute, Genge gave away a soft and silly penalty. Scotland kicked for a 5 metre line out but lost the ball when going for the line and (somewhat against the run of play at the time) England went the length of the pitch to take it to 31-0. Shortly after, Farrell made a bit of a balls of a kick, got charged down by McInally who went on to score. May completely missed what should have been an easy tackle at this level. In the final minute (score 31-7), England had a penalty and for some reason went for an attacking line out which failed to increase the score. IMO: Farrell got his decisions on both penalties wrong: in the 25th minute, he should have tried for an attacking line out and in the 39th minute, he should have taken what was probably an easy 3 points. In the final 10 minutes or so of the first half England's line speed had quite noticeably dropped which is why Scotland were beginning to come back into the game.
Half time 31-7. An international side which has any pretensions of winning the WC should put this game to bed by controlling the game, smothering the oppo who have to play, by picking up penalties and possibly drop goals which seem to have gone out of fashion - was there any in the entire tournament? Instead England played like a side who were chasing a game not like a side who were 24 points ahead. They lost their structure both in attack and defence and were obviously tiring. Scotland are the type of side which thrives on chaos and England handed the game to them. I think it is a bit of a shame that England managed to salvage the game. Scotland deserved a win with that spirit. If they'd got May into touch very near the end then they would probably have held out.

Once again Farrell got very lucky and didn't see a card. On another day he'd have been in the bin. One day he will cost England with his tackle technique. I don't think he should be skipper. Apart from the fact I don't like captains outside the pack, he doesn't have a cool head in a crisis. However, I don't see a captain who is guaranteed his place in the pack.

Scotland were the fitter side. Something is clearly wrong with England's preparation and training. This isn't the first game that they have gone off with a bang and then faded. They are over coached and over trained. Billy Vunipola was almost anonymous yesterday. I doubt if his bulk is all muscle. Has he yet to regain full match fitness after his run of injuries? Is he possibly carrying another knock? England desperately need a fully fit and firing Maro and Mako back in the ranks.

I am not a fan of Jones, as many on here know. Basically he's not as good or as smart as he thinks he is. I doubt if he listens at all when someone questions him. A fatal personality flaw. By all accounts, Gats is a great listener. The players Jones keeps on choosing, sometimes out of position, are all his boys but the wheels have a tendency to fall off when things don't go absolutely according to plan and nobody can get a grip and bring things back on course. Remember these players are top professionals. Is it too late to change? Almost certainly. We'll just have to make the best of it with what we've got. I think that England will need luck on their side to make much of an impact in Japan. If things don't run their way then it will probably be another early exit.

[Rossm]

To answer my own question re. drop goals: there were only 2 in the entire tournament - both by France, Lopez and Ntamack.

[BG]

Lots of points there Ross.

I think going for the 3pts was the right decision. My opinion is always to go for 3 pts when  in front of the posts because you don't know what might happen at a lineout and it keeps the scoreboard ticking over and it took Eng more than 3 converted tries away from Scotland.

Its the same as going for a scrum from a penalty.. you never know what might happen or the ref's interpretation of what he sees.

The ball going between 2 posts is a bit more black and white. I think the decision whether to go for posts  comes down to likelihood of converting 3 pts, what stage it is in either half and where  you are in terms of chasing points. I'll come back to this in a later paragraph though (*)

I don't blame May for tracking back back and missing the tackle either.. I think you have to hand that to the Scottish player being aware that he was about to be tackled and changing his direction.

Farrell's challenge on the Scottish player - Initially I thought the same as the ref.. that the collision was unavoidable and that Farrell didn't have time to pull-out but on reflection.. what was Farrell trying to achieve when chasing the kick.. to either charge the kick down or to make a tackle.. his arms weren't in position to do either so I'm thinking he was lucky to get away with a penalty.. but if a penalty was awarded.. what was it for? Slow motion makes things look worse though so I'm a bit undecidd by it.

EJ's training (camps) methods must have changed as serious injuries seem to have stopped which the clubs must be relieved about. As to fitness levels.. I can't see that there would be much difference between any of the top nations despte what EJ tells us. I think Scotland were mentally fitter (especially Finn Russell).

* - Back to Fazza and making decisions about kicks for goal or touch. I'm not sure the captain should be in a position to be making those decisions for himself. That person will be thinknig about their own game, it needs someone with a wider view on the game.

Its happened with Wasps when Daly was captain.. and he put himself forward for a 45m penalty goal attempt. Ordinarily he would have converted it but it was a cold, drizzly day.. unsure footing and he ended up 10m short and the defending team returned it another 30 - 40 m back to the halfway line.

I'm struggling to think of someone in the England team who is almost a guaranteed starter, with a calm head who can quickly analyse things.

There's no-one in the backs. If Itoje plays then possibly him. Launchers is another candidate but he comes across as quite introverted when dealing with the ref (unlike AWJ).

The only other player that I can think of is Curry but he's very young and probably has no experience of captaining a side or dealing with the ref.

[Rossm]

BG: I do think the captaincy is a problem however, as things are, it's getting too close to the WC to make any dramatic changes. BTW: who took over the captaincy when Farrell was subbed with 10 minutes to go?

I think Maro would be a possibilty, only if there was time to see how he gets on. He'd have to stop reacting like a demented pom pom girl though. I'v never liked all the back slapping, high fiving, etc, which England (and the estate agents) are particularly prone to do. For God's sake, England congratulated each other vigourously yesterday when Scotland knocked on. Pathetic. Is this really team spirit? Its all so fake and manufactured.

[BG]

I didn't notice who became captain .. which says a lot.. I'm guessing Ben Young?

[Rossm]

BTW: Do you remember this? "Eyebrows were raised when John Terry gave a speech to England about team culture before the Wales game."
 
Well that smart idea worked really well 

[RBB]

For me, Eddie has to start playing the best performing and most suited players to the right positions. He needs to take a more representative view, EJ seems hell bent on picking players who are 'out of form' and 'out of position', it is like he is not prepared to change his point of view.

There is no plan B, full stop.

Farrell isn't a leader on the field, there was shot of him at the end in the huddle when he was clearly acting as a captain (too late for that), during the game his lack of leadership in the second half was apparent. Regardless of how England started, the second half performance has to go down as an abject failure for England.

EJ doesn't seem to want to harness impetus, Joe C was immense vs. Italy, why drop him completely? Shields was given hardly any time. I just don't get EJ anymore (not sure I ever have). The World Cup is looking like a walk in the park for the ABs, which is a shame as notwithstanding Wales, the NH countries are looking pretty shabby.

And finally, whatever did our former number 10 do to EJ? His skill, decision making and refusal to accept low standards would have made a difference....

[Rossm]

And finally, whatever did our former number 10 do to EJ? His skill, decision making and refusal to accept low standards would have made a difference....

He has his own ideas and thinks how best to put them into practice. Anathema to a coach like EJ.

[mike909]

I wrote this on an online newspaper

"This performance seems linked in to a series of games since Italy in 2018. In that game, England came out of the blocks fast (scoring after 3 and 11 mins) with great moves straight off the training ground. Coasted, and then lost their way such that only a couple of late tries provided a more flattering scoreline. Same against Wales in 18, except it was get into a lead then defend and then lost several games in a row, including another two in SA, in both England were out of the blocks fast, looking like the best attacking team England had ever had, and then failed to adapt.

So whats up? Many of the players from 2016's great performances are still in the squad, though, a number of those leaders are no longer involved (injury and selection) and it does seem that a number of players are selected without being match fit - a theme from last season too. Is Billy fit? Te'o surely can't be match fit, Shields too, just not enough game time.

The selection itself seems to want to get certain players on the pitch, Manu is out of position, Daly the same and Farrell's win stats at 10 are not great compared to Ford at 10.

England have also been keen on new players too. If it works - a stroke of genius and Joe might still be that - but late runners previously - have been experienced players (Lewsey for 03) rather than youngsters with promise. Whereas I'd have thought this calendar year, pre RWC, a coach would be looking to consolidate their tournament approach, using live games.

For me, it seems England have now played at least three styles in the last 15 months, and different again this 6Ns from even the AI's

They have a couple of warm up games pre RWC - again games you'd probably want to do a little late tuning, but what now? Do England know their best team (as opposed to best individuals) and how they want (ideally) to play?"

Something is wrong at England - buck stops with the coaching team - it wouldn't be the first time Jones has "lost" a changing room and Farrell's post game interview showed a player out of his zone as Captain. No idea what's wrong - but something surely is?

[welsh wasp]

The TV commentators suggested Ford had taken over as captain when he replaced Farrell.
Does EJ listen to any of his staff? Mitchell is his latest addition but I recall he was considered somewhat odd when at Wasps.

[westwaleswasp]

Not looking at the specifics of the game , but overall the big questions are all over the philosophy that Eddie has developed. His intractablility is his downfall. The axiomatic statements come thick and fast- caps win cups being the most egregious-but ultimately he selects to show who is boss, he selects those that match his spikey personality. That is a short term solution that yields results as long as everyone buys in, and the more angry, snarling players you have the more likely it is that they will.
His record is that of a short term master of results and turnarounds, not a long haul coach who can seemlessly develop teams.

Ask yourself this- if the media reported differently would Wales or Ireland select the same team this 6n? Now imagine it is Eddie, same question. It is not the same answer, is it? Showing the media who is boss is something that Eddie indulges in. Gatland is equally aware of the media, but as we have seen on the Lions tour, he makes his point to them after the match whilst throwing the same verbal hand grenades before.

[Vespula Vulgaris]

I had such high hopes for EJ when he took over. I'd been following Japan's progress and predicted they would upset someone before the SA game.

So when he took over England I genuinely believed he would change things, but instead he's doubled down on the same bullshit culture, carried on selecting players on whether their face fits instead of on form, and completely ignored where people normally play.

On top of that he's been arrogant, offensive,  and smug despite not getting the results to justify it.

I don't see anything special happening at the WC, and I can't wait for him to move on.

[RBB]

Has a player ever seemed less leaderlike than in this press conference....? Things need to change.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9syRcfdm_js

[Beasties]

Wow, "I've only been in the job four years, it's not my fault we keep losing like this."

Unbelievable.

[mike909]

I had such high hopes for EJ when he took over. I'd been following Japan's progress and predicted they would upset someone before the SA game.

So when he took over England I genuinely believed he would change things, but instead he's doubled down on the same bullshit culture, carried on selecting players on whether their face fits instead of on form, and completely ignored where people normally play.

On top of that he's been arrogant, offensive,  and smug despite not getting the results to justify it.

I don't see anything special happening at the WC, and I can't wait for him to move on.

I actually think some things have got worse - in terms of culture - Lancaster was poor at the end in terms of whatever happened at the RWC, but has shown good form since and seems an modest guy who had a decent record and not a lot of luck with injury

Eddie's Japan beat a v poor SA that went down to Italy not that long after and engendered some "interesting" comment from players who had worked with him.

All coaches have favs and prejudices, but not even getting Wade in a squad given some of the picks was bizarre and I won't forgive what happened to Sam J.

I'll be glad when he moves on, making watching internationals a lot less attractive