Latest Injury Update

[Rossm]

Bobby Bridge in the Cov Telegraph

https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/rugby/wasps-rugby-news-jimmy-gopperth-16031590

[mike909]

Mainly good news - will be pleased to see Brookes back and Jimmy etc - I think there is a decent chance of some senior players getting back around the same time to see us over the line.

[BG]

It will be good to see more players back. Fingers crossed it gives the rest of the squad a boost but I hope people aren't expecting Jimmy to be the 2nd coming and turn the season around. He's been out for a long time and despite appearing to be as fit as a butchers dog, is no spring chicken.

I just hope he gets to the end of the season (a bit like Reider, and Willis) wihout picking up come back niggles and can knuckle down to a good summer of steadily building strength and conditioning back up

[RBB]

As much as injuries have hampered us this season, and rotten luck (the try that wasn't vs. Tigers).

The general quality of play has been a major contributor, losing possession in the Oppo's 22, handling errors and poor judgment calls/game management. Some of that is coaching, some of it on-field decision making and leadership.

In addition major absenteeism on the pitch, ED, WLR and Nathan are far less engaged and intense, yes we know they are leaving but they have a moral and professional responsibility to give 100%, Wasps pay them and we pay to watch them after all...the main offender is ED, who is true ED spirit is in Dubai (according to Instagram) during this prolonged break, he seems detached from the remainder of the team, he never appears in group social posts with JdJ, Nemo etc.. I temper these final comments with the attitude of Joe Simpson, Will Stuart and JCW who all look engaged and at least try to get the result for their team mates, the club and of course the supporters. I hope next season in the GP will be less injury prone and importantly major improvements in terms of the quality of play and 'can do' attitudes from those that pull on the shirt.

I do believe that Shaun Edwards would be a man that could fix quality and attitude issues within the squad.

[baldpaul101]

ED is in Dubai, with a bunch of England team mates, Joe L & Brad Sheilds amongst others. He did play every minute of the 6 Nations....
Not sure why he has to appear in Social media posts with other members of the team if he doesn't socialise with them? He's regularly in Dan Robsons posts as they are good friends by all accounts.

Not sure you can measure anything by a players social media foot print
Nathan's social media presence has dropped to almost nothing post the extended ban.
WLR continues to play golf with various members of the squad without any issue.
Lima puts lots on Social media but he hasnt played as well as we'd all like.

in short, I dont think what players put on Instagram is relevant.

I don't believe Daly, WLR or Hughes have already mentally checked out either. ED hadn't played at all well for Wasps or England since the end of last season until this latest 6 nations. Hughes form has fluctuated for the last 2 seasons. WLR has looked decent in patches, but with the rest of the team playing so badly, what exactly do you expect them to do?

[RBB]

I welcome different opinions, it makes the world less beige.

I think social postings do have relevance, we will have to agree to disagree when it comes to how relevant. I think what people share on Social Media is an indicator of their demeanour and focus etc. You may not and you may interpret what you see differently to what I see, we are all different, we see things differently and we make different conclusions, that is what makes the forum interesting as opposed to DW where people who should loudest and disagree most are the one that are always correct, hmmmm......why don't I ever go there, perhaps it is because people shout and disagree with everything because they can.

With regard ED, he has been bang average for Wasps and England this season, I think his form is worthy of him being dropped, he was woeful against the Scots and on the rare occasions when he has played for Wasps, he has been poor and petulant, importantly he looks like a man who wants it all to be over. For me that is a player who can't wait to move on, therefore he is disengaged in my opinion. Yes he played every minute of the 6N but not well and not with a great heart, and with limited success, in a position where he is second rate. It is probably best that he goes but the timing was poor given the injury crisis we have experienced, and are not out of yet.

WLR - I agree has been poor and looks like he is getting worse (he seems to practice putting it out on the full),  he also looks disinterested and petulant on most occasions he plays. For me, another player that wants to move on now, didn't he look at the possibility of moving early to a South African Super Rugby team but Dai stepped in to stop any talk of that. The move to Japan will be lucrative and playing in a far less stressful environment, so in my opinion his eye is on that not Wasps current plight.

Hughes - doesn't seem to learn from his mistakes, he doesn't seem to want to learn anymore. He has become a penalty magnet, largely from his lack of understanding of some of the laws and his what seems blasé attitude to giving the ball away by being careless and lacking deference to decisions. If he was engaged as he should be, he would learn and not expose his team mates - I do temper that with there are plenty of others that have a knack of losing the ball or giving away penalties when we are in the Oppo 22, we have mastered that art.

I temper this with the attitudes of the other departing squad members who appear up for the fight and the cause overall.

You ask me what do I expect them to do, given the rest of the squad has been playing so poorly? I expect them to step up, demonstrate their clear skills as international players, and be totally 100% committed to at least salvage some pride from what has been a woeful season, a season where Wasps have been decimated by bad luck and then we have compounded that with poor play that is not fitting of any club, let alone one with immense and proud history.

I will be at the Wuss home game, and frankly I cannot wait - it is the biggest game of our season, I was at Wuss on the opening day and we were very poor - scraping a win, we need to raise the roof and get behind the team a week on Saturday. Wuss is a local derby so they will be there in numbers and be very vocal to give themselves a fighting chance of staying up. The players need to recognise that we as supporters really do care, and so should they - they are still employed by Wasps and as such should reflect that in their behaviour and performances on the field. COYW

[Brandnewtorugby]

If there is a distraction I would guess it would be the world cup more than club changes. The number of players we have seen loose opportunities due to injury, it must play on their minds and affect decisions.

[Rossm]

I temper this with the attitudes of the other departing squad members who appear up for the fight and the cause overall........................
If there is a distraction I would guess it would be the world cup more than club changes.

Of the leavers, the three you have highlighted: WLR, ED and Nathan - all have WC aspirations. Whether this actively plays on their minds, I don't know however it appears to be reflected in their play for their club. IMO, on currant form, Elliot isn't worth his Wasps shirt let alone Englands. Nathan is simply not the player he was before he was chosen for the England setup. WLR is a strange one. I think he just has played too much rugby  and appears to be trying too hard to play himself out of the rut and is too easily frustrated when things don't work. Remember, admittedly with penalty advantage, he made a good long miss pass to Marcus for his most recent try at Kingsholm.

The other leavers, without international aspirations, all seem to put in decent shifts - though I sometimes have doubts about Stuart. He frankly looks, to me at least, bored!  It may however be his natural expression, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. 

If it was down to me, I would not play Elliot at all, unless injury made it a necessity. Mentally, he doesn't seem to be with us and hasn't for quite some time. Nathan? Possibly bench only, once again dependent on injury. I think his skills have been trained out of him by England. I would certainly pick WLR, who is one of my favourite players, but I would sub him early if I thought his game was going to pieces. See how he goes in the Wuss game. After he's had a couple of weeks off.

[baldpaul101]

For me EDs lack of form is what he is getting frustrated about. I totally agree he shouldn't be playing because he's not playing well enough. But, would people be questioning his attitude if we didn't know he was leaving (& going to Sarries at that!) ?

All through his career he's been a very very good rugby player, he's made it look easy. Now all of a sudden, its not working for him and nothing he does goes that way he wants it. That might be pretty difficult to cope with. Maybe he's struggling mentally and a lack of instagram postings is a sign of that?

Who really knows? I know I have no insight into how each of the players is thinking or how hard they are trying, and with the greatest respect to posters on here & elsewhere, I don't think you do either.

Its easy to look in from the outside & see what we want to see, "players that are leaving are not trying". You could be correct and they really aren't. Or you could be wrong & they are trying as hard as they can.

I suspect its somewhere in the middle

[AKWasp]

I think it’s a bit harsh on Nathan. He often plays right on the line at the breakdown and for a ball carrying 8, he makes a lot of turnovers. He doesn’t make as many line breaks as he used to but is it more a case of looking for contact in order to suck more defenders into the tackle area and create space out wide?

[Hymenoptera]

The problem with ED is he is talked about as World Class, which he just isn't. He's not even the best 13, 14 or 15 in England..I have for some time scratched my head at the hype that surrounds him and I think he has started to believe this own hype, hence the petulance.

He has good moments, but they are here and there and certainly don't deserve his tag. I'm not as upset as the masses that he's off...that said, I think he gets in the team over Bertie at the minute, for long range kicks if nothing else.
WLR has to play, he's not had a great season but he can produce something out of nothing still.
Hughes also, he offers a bit more go forward that will tie in and tired defenders...he starts over Shields for me who is a major disappointment

[wasps]

I've always felt that WlR is someone who expects perfection in himself at all times, and wants it from those around him.
When either he or others make mistakes, he gets very angry/annoyed/frustrated.
That was true when we were scoring 40 points and it's true now.
I don't see a huge difference in his attitude, only that there's less good moments to balance out the bad right now.


I think Elliot really is the victim of being a jack of all trades.
Everyone can see that he's not a top quality full back, and that every minute of every game that he plays there is a struggle
He wants to play 13, but those opportunities have been few and far between for the last couple of years.
On the wing, he makes a passing impression of a top international. However, for me, it's because he uses the skills that he honed as a centre, in the extra space that can be afforded on the wing. Add his long range kicking to that, and you've got someone who is valuable in the 11 shirt.
Very few players can handle changing positions regularly, and I really think that Daly is suffering because of it. It'll be Saracen's problem next season, but it's ours for the next few weeks.
The 6nations is over. If we pick Daly in the same position week in week out until the end of the season, I think he'll come good again...... unfortunately, I would kinda prefer that to be wing, rather than outside centre, but with our injury issues that may not be possible


Nathan is a tricky one.
He still has an attribute that's difficult to match. His physical presence draws opposition players towards him which should create space elsewhere, but you need to recycle quickly to use it.
We're not doing that at the moment, and it's true that he's not breaking tackles the way he used to.
He's still a very valuable asset, but in my mind, maybe not a £500k per year one, so I can see why we weren't able to fight Bristol off.
I'll miss Nathan when he's gone, and really hope he can put full effort into the remaining games of our season.

[Hymenoptera]

Has it been confirmed that ED wants to play 13 or just assumed because I have read nothing to that effect.

The fact that he plays for Eng in the back 3 tells me he's happy being utilized there to justify his ongoing selection.

Also, took this from the Bristol site..intreseting:

Following on from a very similar post around Dan Thomas, another train journey gave me time to see how Nathan Hughes compares to his peers.

Looked at a sample of other 'out and out' number 8s (Hughes, Billy V, Ben Morgan, Sione Kalimofoni, Zach Mercer, Josh Strauss), and normalised for minutes played in the Prem this year.

Nathan Hughes comes out as follows;

> Metres per 80 mins played - Ranks 1st, with 63m (average is 39.6)

> Carries per 80 mins played - Ranks 2nd, with 17.7 (average is 16.0)

> Offloads per 80 mins played - Ranks 1st, with 1.25 (average 0.9)

> Tackles per 80 mins played - Ranks 5th, with 10.4 (average 12.4)

> Turnovers per 80ms played - Ranks 1st, with 1.25 (average 0.52)


Breaking down his carrying a little further into how effective his carries are;

> Metres per carry - Ranks 1st, with 3.6 (average 2.5)

> Defenders beaten per carry - Ranks 2nd, with 0.27 (average 0.17)

[Neils]

Daly shone playing at No13 alongside the likes of Wade, Bassett, Varndell, Gopperth and however far you want to go back. As soon as England came calling he started to play out of position and his quality for us dropped off. This season he does not deserve continued faith in his ability for us.

Nathan has becoming spoiled since embracing England and is basically a penalty magnet. With Willis and Young back we need not play him. Players like Carr play for the team but unfortunately others don't.  WLR is a strange one sometimes good not great and sometimes completely dreadful.
We are low on players so some have to be in the mix but some should be set aside.

[BG]

Hymen.. interesting stats but I think you have to take them with a pinch of salt. A lot of the carrying meters will be related to where the 8 stands in defence for box kicks etc and what the preference is for that team to return those kicks.. i.e. is it the wing or 15 that takes the ball back to the line (sarries) or a ball carrying 8.. us.

That's where Nathan probably accrues a lot of those meters . . simply running the ball back from a box kick.

Its my perception that he occasionally bumps a first tackler off but comes to an abrupt standstill doing so.. and then is easily hauled down by the 2nd tackler.

He very rarely breaks a tackle then accelerates another 5 or 10m getting behind the defence like a YY, Zach Mercer, Morgan does.

Ever since joining up with Eng he seems intent on simply running into contact rather than looking for a soft shoulder to run at or even an offload in the tackle.

As you say.. he does attract defenders but nothing normally comes out of that as a result