Glaws sign EA cheat on loan

[Vespula Vulgaris]

This makes me so cross.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/51726397

[NellyWellyWaspy]

I saw that when the Premiership tweeted how good it was to do, or something like that.

[Neils]

After a year they go back fit and with full knowledge of the hosts training and business methods. Hope we resist.

[backdoc]

The players would be better off going to France, if any team would have them.

[mike909]

I suppose in terms of value received by the clubs, it depends upon the financial arrangement. The players involved are good players that under alternative arrangements, you'd like for your own.

BUT...given what we know and what we expect may come out in the wash over time from way back, I'd prefer not to have anything at all to do with any of those players on a loan basis.

Were any player to leave the EAs looking for  new horizons, I'd probably have some sympathy  - but on a loan basis - it just gives a free pass to players who must have have known that they were involved in salary cap evasion.

This sort of "letting off" brings the game into disrepute and condones cheating.

[Old Geezer]

We are still no clearer what the EA's longer term solution to their current situation is other than getting rid of older player and Kruis is the only one i have heard a rumour about so far.

[BG]

I can't quite believe some PRL clubs are taking EA players on loan. Bristol are taking Earle and Mailins as well. I realise that those players won't be available to Sarries next season but they are still contracted to Sarries, presumably free to be pulled back to Sarries at any point. It smacks of double standards by the other clubs as it is effectively helping out Sarries. If Sarries want (need) to reduce their wage bill then the players should simply be released to join another club.. if the player doesn't want to be released then Sarries have a problem on their hands.

How does the loan system work.. who pays the player's wages? If Glos/Bristol are paying the wages then surely they are employing that player and should be contracted to that new employer.. or do Glos/Brizzle pay Sarries for hiring their employee and then Sarries still pay the player their wages.. but then that would still be part of the Salary Cap?

[DGP Wasp]

I wonder if there is more than meets the eye to Billy and Mako's recent travels and Mako's omission from England.  Admittedly this is nothing more than me putting 2 and 2 together and making a a lot more than 5, but maybe they are exploring Super Rugby options?

Surprised Kruis was selected if both he and Eddie knew Japan beckoned.  His wave as he left the pitch at Twickenham on Saturday suggests that might be his last for England for a while at least.

[Mellie]

I believe for the Bristol deals Sarries are paying most of the players' wages (to a value within the salary cap) and Bristol are paying the rest. Meaning Sarries comply and Bristol get 2 good players cut price.

Question is, when the players return to Sarries are they expecting the same remuneration, in which case how will Sarries afford it within the cap? Will they be offloading more squad  players next season?

[DGP Wasp]

Question is, when the players return to Sarries are they expecting the same remuneration, in which case how will Sarries afford it within the cap? Will they be offloading more squad  players next season?

I imagine they'll have to.  Another batch of contracts will expire at the end of next season, so players will be able to be released without the need to pay out the remainder of their contracts, which itself would be included in cap calculations.

[Rory87]

I'm going to be hugely controversial here..... I don't see the problem and we're being massively presumptuous about which players knew what. Yes I agree that Mako, Farrell and Itoji, etc must have known given the level of salary. However, who's to say a 'squad player' like Singleton would have known? We need to stop assuming that every member of Saracen's squad knew what was going on and is complicit in it. Don't agree with the title of this calling Singleton a 'cheat'.

How is an aspiring player on the cusp of international involvement looking to stay in the spot light with a Prem club, a bad thing.... It's no different to Mark Wilson going on Loan to Sale for a season to ensure he remains firmly in Eddie's plans. No one seems to have kicked off at that loan move.

Don't get me wrong, I hate what Sarries have done and am very pleased they've got the punishment they have. However, I don't feel that every one of their players should be black listed and not allowed to better their career at another club at a critical time of their career.

What happens in a years time isn't confirmed.... a number may move permanently following their loans.

[HDAWG]

Agree with Rory87 here, mainly because I'm tired of talking about Sarries being bad, which they absolutely are, but I come here to talk about Wasps.

[Vespula Vulgaris]

Firstly I disagree that the players didn't know.  It has been an open secret for years that Sarries were not playing by the rules.  And anyone with half a brain could see the difference between their squad and everyone else's.

Secondly if players don't want to spend a year in the Championship then they should sign for other clubs.  If they don't want to leave Sarries then they should stay. Other clubs offering temporary signings in order for the club that has been cheating on an ongoing and persistent basis to retain members of the squad it assembled illegally is simply condoning what they did.

And on top of that why would anyone want to sign a player who didn't actually want to play for their club? I think we have suffered massively because of a lack of stability and genuine desire to be part of what the club are trying to achieve. It's clear that we have taken a number of steps to fix that and I think we are only now starting to see the rewards.

[BG]

Firstly I disagree that the players didn't know.  It has been an open secret for years that Sarries were not playing by the rules.  And anyone with half a brain could see the difference between their squad and everyone else's.

Secondly if players don't want to spend a year in the Championship then they should sign for other clubs.  If they don't want to leave Sarries then they should stay. Other clubs offering temporary signings in order for the club that has been cheating on an ongoing and persistent basis to retain members of the squad it assembled illegally is simply condoning what they did.

And on top of that why would anyone want to sign a player who didn't actually want to play for their club? I think we have suffered massively because of a lack of stability and genuine desire to be part of what the club are trying to achieve. It's clear that we have taken a number of steps to fix that and I think we are only now starting to see the rewards.

+1. Any club signing a contracted sarries player on loan for a whole season (not a 3 month injury cover ) is simply assisting Sarries in wriggling out of the hole they have, over years, dug for themselves.

Given Glaws and Bristol's Pat Lam's previous comments on salary cap infringements I can't quite believe they are giving Sarries a way out of the salary cap predicament.

I suspect Singleton, Earle and Mailins don't actually want to go to another club.

[Rory87]

VV...

Appreciate what you're saying VV but I just don't think we can continue to black list every player that plays at Sarries. Did the club cheat, yes... Did the players know, more than likely... To what extent the club cheated, we cannot say that!

What is clear is that all clubs utilise 'loop holes' in the salary cap rules. eg, the Sharples going out on loan to exempt his salary, but didn't, saga. I'm not condoning Sarries for their actions as they were far in excess of any other club and clearly and blatantly disregarded the rules. However, should players not have gone there to earn a living and have a shot at trophies? Should a player now not be touched because they play/played at sarries? If a player was paid fairly by sarries and within the rules, why should they be punished if other players at the club were not?

Would I want a sarries player on loan? Probably not as I agree, we want a player to buy into our club. However, I don't think loans of sarries players should be banned. I also don't think it's letting Sarries off the hook, it's gaining a decent player for next season to help your club have a crack at silverware for a season.

On your final point, I bring things back around to Mark Wilson... why have Wilson and Sale not been critised for that loan deal?

BG...

How are the clubs assisting sarries 'wriggling out of the hole'? We don't know why the clubs are signing them. Perhaps clubs don't have the room in the cap as they have already mapped out their recruitment, so by loaning the players and splitting their salaries, are giving players a home for next season? We need to remember these are human beings earning a living.

It's not a way out of the predicament, Sarries will still have to adhere to the salary cap rules the season they come back. People are talking like the loanees will all go back  in 18 months time and it will be business as usual, it wont be. Sarries have to trim down their wage bill to meet the cap and that will happen as they will be watched like a hawk. This is perhaps an iterative way of doing it. Perhaps sarries have a number of players with only 1 year left to run on their deals so will be retained for next season rather then paying the early release penalty (which would contribute to the cap and thus enforce Sarries to break the rules even more!) and the younger players who have multiple years on their deals will head out on loan for a year and come back to replace them…. Meaning no one is out of a job next season and Sarries stand a better chance at meeting the salary cap regulations both next season and the one after.

We should consider also that players like life at Sarries and the environment it has, so want to remain at the club long term (within the rules), so as a way of doing that, go out on loan to help the club restructure and come back to a squad that adheres to the rules.

As much as I hate that it's happened and cannot stand Sarries as a club, I think we need to get over it now and just move on. Sarries are going down and will have to adjust to a different premiership life when the come back up, in whatever capacity their squad is in in 18 months time.