Fiver Off Again

[Bloke in North Dorset]

If we didn't have mercurial in the lexicon someone would have to coin it as its the only way to describe Cips. I've loved watching him play and when you see highlights reels they're a joy to watch, but there is another side that is maddening and frustrating - those long floaty passes over the top do get intercepted.

With Lima presumably off next season, there's an argument for having a fly half on the books to push Umaga and keep him improving - in fairness, that's probably not a role you sign DC up for, and not one that he'd be after at this stage of his career either

That's a good point, would/could he play 2nd fiddle to a young player?

[Rossm]

If we didn't have mercurial in the lexicon someone would have to coin it as its the only way to describe Cips. I've loved watching him play and when you see highlights reels they're a joy to watch, but there is another side that is maddening and frustrating - those long floaty passes over the top do get intercepted.

With Lima presumably off next season, there's an argument for having a fly half on the books to push Umaga and keep him improving - in fairness, that's probably not a role you sign DC up for, and not one that he'd be after at this stage of his career either

Probably impossible and his wages would preclude it.

That's a good point, would/could he play 2nd fiddle to a young player?

[mike909]

I've always enjoyed watching players where jeopardy is part of the "deal". In many ways it was part of why I found the England of '03 vintage only came to life once Jason R was being selected - and you couldn't get more different from Danny.....Jason was both mercurial and a really hard worker and a "real" team man too

What rarely happened with Danny, was a coach getting that balance between discipline and team focus and the facilitation of genius. In Danny's case, it may not have been possible - it may just have been an impossible "bargain" for this particular player. And I do wonder if anyone has talked to him in those terms. I'm sure Ian M did when making him FB for the Euro final

I'll admit, looking back on what serves as my career......that my low points all coincided with my own poor judgement that it was more important for me to "be right" than to agree what was right for my team. And visa versa, the best bits were when my manager got me to buy into what the team required - but made it feel like it was my decision......(to precis rather!) And I'm a lot easier to deal with (I'm sure) than Danny.

So - yes - a bit of a waste of what could have been - but Cips himself is as much to "blame" as anyone else or any situation. But it may well have been that there wasn't a solution that anyone could get Cips to buy into?

[WonkyWasp]

For me, you have summed up everything perfectly in those last two sentences. With regards to 'coaching' I would not be overly keen on my grandson being coached by a bloke who tries to tackle a bus when drunk.   I met  Fiver  at Broadstreet when he first returned and was pleased to meet him, but we did not get on. I don't think he likes old biddies!

[Vespula Vulgaris]

For me, you have summed up everything perfectly in those last two sentences. With regards to 'coaching' I would not be overly keen on my grandson being coached by a bloke who tries to tackle a bus when drunk.   I met  Fiver  at Broadstreet when he first returned and was pleased to meet him, but we did not get on. I don't think he likes old biddies!

I met him a couple of times and on both occasions he seemed distracted and disinterested.

He's clearly talented, but I'm not convinced he ever offered anything to the team as a whole.

[WonkyWasp]

VV  ... thank you SO much for saying that.  I thought it was just me. Derek was there and his usual  lovely self  but Fiver's eyes I thought were like 2 black stones in  a mountain stream. Cold and expressionless.  I have rarely seen that before. 

[Rifleman Harris]

I have to say I met him twice, and my experience couldn't be more different.  We found him modest, engaging and kind..as I think I may have mentioned several times before!  I guess he is one of those marmite people, but I think it is fair to say he doesn't make life easy for himself.

[Montague Withnail]

I'm not sure he could mentor or coach anyone. I think for someone who plays so instinctively it must be very hard to teach it to someone else. .

Don't get me wrong. loved watching him play & wish him all the best but he does seem to rub people up the wrong way

[Neils]

For me, you have summed up everything perfectly in those last two sentences. With regards to 'coaching' I would not be overly keen on my grandson being coached by a bloke who tries to tackle a bus when drunk.   I met  Fiver  at Broadstreet when he first returned and was pleased to meet him, but we did not get on. I don't think he likes old biddies!

I met him a couple of times and on both occasions he seemed distracted and disinterested.

He's clearly talented, but I'm not convinced he ever offered anything to the team as a whole.

Agree - also came across him after two matches whilst staying in the hotel. It was obvious from our getup that we supported Wasps. The first time he completely ignored a good game comment. The second time leaning against the wall outside one of the pitchside suites he was downright rude to my wife who only wished him well as we walked past. So so different to all of the players we have come across through the years. However you can only take as you find.

[baldpaul101]

Building a team round some like Cips is fantastic when its all going well, he's in a good mood & great form & everything he tries comes off.
The problems occur when he's injured (how can you replace someone who plays so uniquely?) or when he's out of form or having troubles off the field. Then everything starts to fall apart.
which is why in my opinion he never cemented his England place.

But that's part of the risk you take when picking a team and I feel privileged to have watch him from A team games at Imber court all the way up to England matches.

[RogerE]

My cousin-in-law  (?) was captain at a golf club where several Wasps players are members, and he told me that following Cips departure he was told by at least three of the players they were happy with him going, as, to quote one of our current senior players, "he was toxic".

[matelot22]

My cousin-in-law  (?) was captain at a golf club where several Wasps players are members, and he told me that following Cips departure he was told by at least three of the players they were happy with him going, as, to quote one of our current senior players, "he was toxic".

I think I've mentioned it on here before, but I heard similar. A friend of mine attended a wedding shortly after his departure was announced, he found himself chatting to a board member of the club, who insisted that Wasps, as a whole, were not sorry to see him go.

For all that, I've enjoyed his contribution to our club and have loved watching him play. At his best, a truly unique talent.

[baldpaul101]

He's just confirmed he's leaving on Social media.
No indication of whether it's right now or at the end of the season, or where he's going.

[Montague Withnail]

My cousin-in-law  (?) was captain at a golf club where several Wasps players are members, and he told me that following Cips departure he was told by at least three of the players they were happy with him going, as, to quote one of our current senior players, "he was toxic".

Even without any inside knowledge that seemed almost certain. I'm not sure the "toxic" label would be fair to apply to Hask, but it was clear that he was angry so I doubt he was helping the dynamic either. 

[InBetweenWasp]

I have to say I met him twice, and my experience couldn't be more different.  We found him modest, engaging and kind..as I think I may have mentioned several times before!  I guess he is one of those marmite people, but I think it is fair to say he doesn't make life easy for himself.

Similar experience after a game at The Ricoh.  He was kind, patient and warm with all those around him.  One of our kids told him he was her favourite player (and had his name on her Wasps shirt).  He later sent my wife a message asking if it would be ok for him to re-use the photo she had posted and tagged him in on social media.  He then posted, unprompted and unrequired with nothing to gain about how much he'd enjoyed meeting our daughter and her positivity.