TRP

[Marlow Nick]

Here is where we stand 1st tier, 2nd tier, 3rd tier, 4th tier:

9. 1st NA, 2nd Dobby, 3rd Hooguard, 4th Porter and Woolstenholm
10. 1st NA 2nd Charlie, 3rd Jacob, 4th Miller
12. 1st + 2nd NA. 3rd Jimmy, 4th MLB. Mills AWOL.
13. 1st NA, 2nd Fekitoa, 3rd NA Spink and McHenry 4th
14. 1st NA, 2nd Odogwu, 3rd Kibrige, 4th Watson
11. 1st NA, 2nd Josh, 3rd Mehson
15. 1st Crossdale, 2nd NA, 3rd Minozzi

Nelly,
Am I reading this correctly that tier 1 equates to current international, tier 2 equates to just outside / on Eddy's radar, tier 3 is a very solid club player and tier 4 is either an apprentice or just there to make up the numbers?

As others have pointed out your ratings for Dobby, Jacob, Charlie and Ali appear slightly inconsistent. However the other key point is that with salary cap constraints no club can realistically hope to have a squad containing 15x tier 1 + 15x tier 2. That's why  we could all see Saracens circa 2018 were so blatantly breakingthe cap. So the challenge for any DoR is where to prioritise. Do you aim for a top tier 8/9/10 or would you prefer a world class 12/13 pairing and if you get them (which is a challenge since they're in demand) who are your subs?

I'd argue that when the squad was assembled 9 months ago Mills and Fekitoa backed up by Jimmy, Spink and Odogwu was a very strong looking set of centres - until our injury crisis hit.

[NellyWellyWaspy]

Tiers, sort of, rank the best players from each team (if fit) in each position. Let's say roughly 12 ranks (coz 13 is a horrible primer number).

Tier 1 is positions 1-3
Tier 2 is 4-6
Tier 3 is 7-9
Tier 4 10-13

My ranking is about how unpredictable the player is to defend against. van der Merve is a case in point. Or even Nowell. You can't predict what they will do, and that forces defensive decisions that are sub optimal. Attack isn't just about what an individual player is good at. If it was, Watson and Kibirige would be scoring every week, more than one try per game. But, other than their speed in space, they offer little else by way of threat. Compare to Radwan or Rees-Zammit. Those damn players pop up everywhere. It is why I suggested Ibitoye would be good for us, as he is the same. It is what made Wade so great (until he lost interest)
and also Piutau.
So, a Tier 2 players is one who ranks 4th to 6th in their position in the league. So, not just EQP players. For example, in Tier 1 I put Faf. Everyone has strengths, but also weaknesses. For backs, it is the ability to force a defence to consider many possible scenarios. For Dobby, his best two skills are lightning fast distribution and support in open play (he always seems to be in the right place at the right time. Neither of those can a defence really defend. What they can defend is the snipe and the box kick, and Dobby is not so good with kicking, so it gives defences less work to do. Dobby's passing can be a bit wayward at times.

A successful attack is partly about dividing and confusing the opposition. That means you have to be good at those things that force the opposition to think hard about what defence they mount. With Dobby and Jacob, the rush defence will almost always work. Try that against Care and Smith and see what happens.

One reason Daly was so good at 13 with us, and one would argue not so good elsewhere, was that he had Cips and Jimmy inside him to distract the defence, and Wade outside him. Similarly, when we had Beale at FB, that gave Daly so many more options.

[HDAWG]

I think backline recruitment will go as such:

9. Robson still first choice, Hougaard replaced and Wolstenholme or Porter retained. Really annoying Heinz, Chudley etc all have contracts for next year, what about Townsend?

10. Umaga Atkinson will be rotated. I really hope Atkinson gets opportunities ahead of Umaga like last season, to see him grow. Instead of Atkinson playing at 15 which is a waste given he's not a great fullback and when you have Crossdale it seems a waste not to play him. Shame we don't have an experienced 10 who's younger than Gopperth, but that's the problem when you have 2 young fly halves with potential...

11/14. Bassett and Kibirige again, but I don't see anyone else we have knocking on the door. I wouldn't mind a new winger, unless Odogwu works there. But don't expect much in terms of signings there.

12/13. Fekitoa gone, Mills I also expect to leave and pray Gopperth takes a back seat. I expect Hartley to be called up. But I also expect further signings. But with the salary cap I don't expect big money to be spent, especially after Koch. MLB kept as good squad player.

God damn it this isn't going to be easy. I hope we we sign a really good centre, but they're hard to come by.

[backdoc]

NWW

You are describing individuals.

Not a team.

[CV2]

I’d like to see Odogwu back at 14 - still not convinced on Zach. Odogwu offers more of a threat and I like how he roams off his wing.

So this leaves us with needing two first choice centres (at least). I just can’t see how we can offer Mills another contract next year unless he can prove his fitness in the remainder of this season, the reduction in salary cap means we need more than ever value for money in players and we can’t carry any passengers.

With the way this season is going and the fixtures we have coming up there could conceivably not be much to play for come February onwards so there has to be one eye on next season, where I think we need to blood Hartley/Simonds/Spink (injuries permitting) as much as possible. Tigers blooded some youngsters last year during a poor season and are seeing the benefits this year. Hopefully we could see this benefit in the centres.

As others have stated recruitment for centres seems incredibly hard in the current market, quality available centres are sparse. I don’t know his contract situation but to throw another name out there - Piers O’Conor? Available all year, can play 12 or 13 and Bristol need to balance the books for Genge and McGinty.

Anyway good luck Lee and team

[Neils]

Speculation is fun but until we know who is off or being unloaded it is just that.

I wonder if the Wasps old philosophy of not announcing until the end of the season is still in play. Big announcements aside where the other club want to get the info out eg Koch. Could be a long speculate. 😀

[Hymenoptera]

Agree about the backs. I think Koch is the right signing. With him and West in tandem I see us dominating a fair few up front which might win us games in itself. Backs wise I can’t see Hougaard staying. This year was convenient for him to stay in the UK but I think he’ll move on - probably along with Mills, Watson, Minozzi and Fekitoa.  If Miller stays fit between him, Crossdale and Mehson plus Simonds we’re OK there. Wings wise we have to start seeing the likes of Anderson and Bacon before judging what we need there but we’re probably OK. So I think we’ll need a 9. And we’ll need three new centres. I think Odogwu will be played at 13 and I like the look of Spink (but he also struggles fitness wise). I do think Gopperth will play another year but for me we’ll need two new 12’s. I’d take either of the James brothers at Sale or try and tempt Redpath from Bath. Not too sure what’s available in the SH but I’m sure we’re looking.

I know nothing of Bacon or Anderson, I wasn't sure if Mehson played 15 either. You mention Redpath which is a good shout but having been bought out, i think he's tied up for some time, but from Bath, De glanville looks a fine player.
I think the best players have been found when the net has been cast further, looking in or around the prem is lazy recruiting and will get you what your expecting. A Du Preez, Weise, Nandolo, Nayavaro, Rona...or the next versions.

[CV2]

Speculation is fun but until we know who is off or being unloaded it is just that.

I wonder if the Wasps old philosophy of not announcing until the end of the season is still in play. Big announcements aside where the other club want to get the info out eg Koch. Could be a long speculate. 😀

Speculation is fun and lets be honest it’s a nice distraction from the games currently 

[JonnyD]

Was it as long ago as Stuart Abbott and Fraser Waters that we had a very good pair of centres or am I forgetting some significant names. Erinle started very well but then disappeared rather quickly - because of injuries?

That would almost certainly be the best centre partnership we had.

Since then, it's tricky.
Waldouck and someone
Flutey and....
Chris bell
Ben Jacobs
But it feels like sacrilege to even mention these options in the same breath as waters/abbott

More recently it was Jimmy, but the Cipriani/ Jimmy combo where anyone outside them could be a lethal option in the 13 channel

Gopperth and Daly wasn’t bad.

The Kefu Jacobs partnership had such a great balance and were great in attack and defence in a struggling squad. Jacobs really held things together like Fraser used to.
Mills Fekitoa could have been one of the best

[SilverShire]

Would very much welcome O'Connor back with open arms, but I doubt Bears will let him go.
If they are looking to free up cash then I think Bristol will let Radradra go ahead of O'Connor. I see Radradra in the same light as Feks, very good player when fit and available to play. But between injury and international duty he isn't available that much.

[JonnyD]

Leicester were rumoured to be in for Steff Hughes from the Scarlets. Would like to think if we’re in line for a ball playing 12 who can also play 10, wouldn’t be too expensive and available all year that we’d be looking at him too (if Mills is off)

Noel Reid is probably leaving France and if we’re really forgiving Stuart Olding might be free. All similar players.

[Heathen]

Ibitoye to Bristol being reported everywhere in the 4th estate this morning.

[InBetweenWasp]

Surprised that there wasn’t a mention for Odogwu’s dream XV….

….a certain Anthony Watson at 14 for him.  Couple of other tidbits in it as well; he was mentored by Si Mac, speaks exceptionally highly of Launch, is in awe of Jack Willis’ flexibility and mentions Malakai’s efforts to help bring him up to speed of playing 13.

Others from Wasps in his team are Robson and Jacob.