TRP

[wasps]

When we signed MlB, hadn't he just been voted player of the season (or similar) in the championship?
And in general, we don't feel he's good enough to be a first choice centre for us.

So, we presumably want centres that are better than championship quality
But we don't want them good enough that they'll be away on international duty
We want them to be defensively sound, have great attacking ability, a boot and presumably have leadership skills
And they've gotta be relatively cheap



I think we're gonna struggle

[Steve from Cov]

Paul Lasike (Quins) destroyed our defence when he came on in the Xmas cracker game in 2019?

He has been injured but has recovered and isn’t going be playing regular first team rugby at Quins.

[Westy68]

Some players from the championship can make a huge step up from the championship because playing with better players makes them better players.

Unfortunately some players can’t make that step up. I don’t think we should therefore stop getting players from the championship.

I would admit we have a better chance of getting a cheap quality player from our academy

[NellyWellyWaspy]

Didn't Josh also come from the Championship?

[Rossm]

Didn't Josh also come from the Championship?

Yes. Bedford.

[Neils]

Didn't Frosty come from the Championship?

[CV2]

Generally our recruitment out of the Championship has been good, MLB just hasn’t worked out and I would never had guessed he was a former Championship player of the year based on his Wasps career.

I can’t see that him and Mills will be retained for next year, this with Fek seemingly off and Gopps another year older we could be conceivably in the market for 3 centres as I can only think of Spink/Odogwu/Hartley. (Two rookies and a converted winger!)

[Shugs]

Some make it, some don’t. I think at least one of our centres has to be proven at a decent level.

[JonnyD]

I think Mills is a 50/50 call.
On paper he is our first choice 12 and his ability (injury free) could have seen him play for England.
if he is back soon and starts clicking, Umaga will undoubtedly improve and who ever is at 13 will start being put through holes more regularly - he will then I’m sure be offered a new deal because there aren’t many better in the league at what he does.

Unfortunately, I’m sure the injury curse will strike again and realistically he should not be offered a new deal. If this happens it will be so tough for him to get a deal elsewhere but we are a business and it needs to be a business decision, as does any deal with Fekitoa, and we undoubtedly need more value for money from our centres.

I think we have got value from Booj, he was surely only ever 3rd choice 12 and perhaps 4th as Fekitoa at 12 would be the choice over him if another 13 was firing. Unfortunately everyone else has been injured and he’s been a little found out. He has definitely improved but it is maybe time for Hartley to be phased in instead at the end of this season.

[wasps]

Oh yeah, I forgot to add to the list that they have to have a good injury record.


Maybe this isn't a great observation, but it feels like there's been a real shortage of quality centres in England for years... Probably nearly 20 years.
In the last 15 years, England have used Jamie Noon, Ayoola Erinle, Riki Flutey, Sam Burgess, Joel Tomkins and probably many other centres in the hope of finding quality options.

I think we've also tried a number of big wingers as centres.



I think centres have to be looked at as a pair, which makes it quite an unusual position and difficult to fill.
There's very few centres that have all the skills that you'd want, as such a pair of centres are required that have the entire skillset between them and cover for any deficiencies the other may have.
But then, if they're not playing as that pair, they can be exposed.



I think it's far easier to find a decent winger or hooker these days than it is to find a centre that compliments the existing players.

[wasps]

With regards to hookers in the modern game, given that there's very little technical requirement for a hooker at scrum time, are they now just average flankers who have spent a little time learning to throw at the lineout?

[PestNproud]

Bit surprised to feel the need to come to MLB's defence but I don't think fair to be so brutal.

He's always given good service to the club but has his limits, which show when squad under pressure and he's tested (and far from first time during his tenure).

As far as I can tell, he always does what is asked, even when stepping into first- or even second-choice boots too big for him (and many players), and seemingly uncomplainingly and with good humour. And a good injury record, particularly for such as a physical and hard-working player. Not surprising it doesn't always come off when so much being asked off him, but also times when it does and he makes a material difference in a win. Comparison with Mills (first-choice money?) is unfair.

As others have said, MLB just may not be an inventive decision-maker, as we could see when he steps in and gets snaffled as we as fans scream for him to flick the ball out wide or do something creative, or gets flummoxed in defence, and so may get badly shown up when selection and structures are a toss-up, on-field leadership and direction in flux, and he's asked to add nous -- ie. as right now.

Because he's currently a villain of the board, we focus on his screw-ups but for every one I see, I also see him pull off something significantly useful, which also shows a lot of heart. And remember, when a forward gets carded, it tends to be MLB (or Bassett) who rock up as covering wing-forward (or charge in to add umph to get a rolling maul over the line) and often to positive effect.

There's only so many world-class or top-class players anywhere or in any single squad, let alone in a group decimated by injury and illness where the remaining players standing must be perpetually knackered, so I think we could show a bit more generosity of spirit rather than roasting squad players for not being infallible, match-winning superstars. For them, I imagine they can feel they are only as good as their last game or their injury record, especially when contracts are in the offing, which could be one hell of a mental challenge.

I think it's great and justified that we give so many Championship players a chance, and quite a few a berth, particularly to mix it in/up with a squad that is so well populated with international quality and a strong Academy. He may not be a Bassett, but MLB is also a credit to his cadre. I have no idea on stats, but it feels like we've given dozens of Championship players a try-out under Dai and Lee, and a good number a home, albeit perhaps with a better success rate in the pack.

[Shugs]

I don’t think it’s brutal on Le Bourgeois. Most recognise his limitations. The fact that most are calling for a first up 12 is not a direct criticism of him.

[wasps]

MlB is a fine player... As 3rd choice.... Which is what he was signed as.

However almost since his debut, he's been elevated to first choice truth injuries and circumstance, and I don't think he's a first choice centre for a club with aspirations of winning the league.



There's usually 2 types of attributes that separate the best players from the rest. L, which usually correlates to the first choice players and the squad players.

1) sometimes it's a particular skillset that they excel at. I.e. Jack Willis and he's ability at the breakdown

2) consistency of performance. The best players rarely have a bad game. Your squad players can sometimes put in 9/10 performances, but there will also be some 6/10 performances.


Asking squad players to play week in week out means that you'll see those poorer performances more often.


We need players like MlB, and I wouldn't want to lose him, but we need a few centres ahead of him, so that when he plays, or when he's on the bench, he can focus on putting in an 8 or 9 out of 10 game

[welsh wasp]

Was it as long ago as Stuart Abbott and Fraser Waters that we had a very good pair of centres or am I forgetting some significant names. Erinle started very well but then disappeared rather quickly - because of injuries?
I think MLB has done a very good job for us in recent seasons. He has had to take on a difficult role because of injuries and has done the best he can.