Our Backs

[Westy68]

Looking at our backs of last night, Bassett, Charlie, Dan, Jimmy, Fekitoa, Hougaard and Crossdale

Plus subs Paolo and porter, which one of those players would make the first team of any other premiership team. I can only think of Dan but he’s not exactly flying at the moment, maybe Bassett but he doesn’t score any trys (personally don’t think that is solely his fault)

Have I got it right, surely that can’t be right. If so that is a big problem. Getting in only one 12 is not going to be enough.

This is a problem that needs to be sorted. It doesn’t look like we can bring any from the premiership as I believe it would have been announced, maybe I’m wrong about that. Therefore do we have no choice and have to bring some players from abroad

[NellyWellyWaspy]

As a unit, it isn't (a unit).

How on earth can Josh (or Hougaard for that matter) score when he has a 13 inside him who drops the ball so much, and when he does get the ball, rarely ships it out?

Jimmy, aside from his kicking, is also probably not at that level now.

Dan and Charlie do not seem to work at all well together. Charlie actually played quite well last night, but was under pressure from the Sale scrum back 3 at every scrum and lineout.

No scrum half looks good when the pack in front of him is going backwards. Sale constantly pushed our scrum back, and counter rucked all the time.

Crossdale has the makings of a good, maybe exceptional, full back.

Right now, and more importantly, next season? Charlie and Ali can and probably will get better.

I don't see Jacob getting better though.

Last night our scrum was simply outperformed. Our props was the problem. Loosing Stooke was much bigger than you imagine. It lost us the disruption and counter rucking he brings, and lost us the stability in rucks where we had the ball, and lost us the forward momentum in mauls where we had the ball. We will be without him for a long while, and we have lost Fifita. Gaskell is a different type of lock.

No team will win games without the pack functioning, regardless of who the backs are.

So, no, I don't see the problem as the backs. The problem, which may be resolved with new blood next year, is the front 5.

We don't have to worry about Jimmy and Malakai, they are leaving. I do worry about Mills taking up a slot that a fit player could fill. He is a good player who doesn't play. He was the same at Worcester, and I expressed that concern when the rumours started that he was coming.

The fact is, English Rubgy is not producing the quality in the backs that would support 13 Premiership teams, and the salary cap means we can no longer afford to import quality from the Southern hemisphere.

Much as we may not like it, all teams will suffer with back lines that deteriorate as the years roll by without sufficient quality of youth coming in.

[JonnyD]

So next week do you play the likes of Spink, Mehson, Cardall, Mills etc to give them a game or save them the risk of a serious injury ruling them out until Christmas or something and just let the leavers play?

[Old Geezer]

I am not sure it is the lack of skill or ability with any of our backs as individuals.  Just watching us in set piece moves, for example, it seems we don't have any tricks, plans or imagination such as you see with other teams. Our backs seem to play as individual, a criticism I have made before about our forwards.  How much more effective would we be if our backs moved the ball more effectively - at they moment they are just predictable and take the ball into contact too often.  I also think that our forwards have a woeful offloading game for the most part.  Both these things destroy the quick ball and turnovers we are capable of.

[Bloke in North Dorset]

. Charlie actually played quite well last night,

I agree, but judging by some of the other comments I’d seen I was wondering if I’d been watching a different game or we had someone else called Charlie. 

As he’s not distinctive and doesn’t do much that we might call flash he doesn’t get noticed much, but I saw him putting in some good tackles and running hard at the gain line before giving flat passes. 

I think he’s a bit naive at times and can be easy to defend against, especially when we’re always on the back foot, but he’s still only 20 and will develop better game management.  He did get a few praises by the commentators. 

[Wombles]

I posted this in post match thoughts, but it is better suited to this thread:

After sleeping on it I am still disappointed. The backs are now clearly an issue, and I think one key moment is when we had multiple phases on Sales try line in the final 10 minutes, where the forwards kept pounding away and the backs were left standing there. Eventually when it did go wider Porter passed high and behind Fekitoa and the knock on came. This tells me 2 things. 1: The forwards are not confident in the backs to do the job. 2: The backs are not playing well enough to do the job.

Looking at our backs performance it is so bad it terms of communication, ability, style and play that this falls squarely onto the coaches. When backs are playing this badly coaching failures are usually to blame. It is clear there is no strategy, no one really knows what lines they are running, what plays/moves they are doing or what to do if it goes multi phase as we cannot even get the first move done smoothly. We have a skills coach in Ed Robinson, but we have no dedicated backs coach and it really really shows! Perhaps the biggest signing we need is a specialist backs coach, and Ed really needs to up his game because the catching, passing, handling, movement and ability to execute under pressure are all substandard, and that lands directly on his doorstep! The coaches really need to work out how they want the whole team to play because what they are doing so far is not working.

[Pompeyman]

Agree with lots of comments especially the one that says backs will struggle without front foot or at least stable ball from the forwards BUT last night when we did get good ball how many passes were either head height, behind or unsympathetic to the receiver. very basic skills lacking which tells me low confidence. These guys are good, very good but clearly are not confident on either themselves, the systems they are playing or their colleagues....either way it needs sorting, by the coaches and themselves. Its a double edged sword

[HDAWG]

Last night was an example of when we don't have a strong forward pack and it affects our whole game.

But even when we had a strong forward pack, our backs have struggled. Even in the games we won our backs didn't look great.

The thing is this is also roughly the same squad that was scoring belters in Dai's last season and pre-lockdown.

I absolutely blame the coaching staff and in particular the attack coaches. Mitchell is a good coach, but never an attack coach. Same goes to Everard. We need a better skills and attack coach for next season, because otherwise it'll just be more of the same.

[westwaleswasp]

Struggling to remember when our 2017 vintage got the better of opposing packs s teams with muscular packs like Saints and Sale, whilst we scored from anywhere vs  everyone. We regularly got out muscled in the set piece, or a least had a mediocre line out, but one sniff of turnover we were under the posts. First phase we were lethal. There were line breaks galore. Contrast with last night's debacle.

Yes last night the forwards did not win the arm wrestle, but stick Cipriani, Beale, Wade, WLR, Daly et al on and we would have had multiple tries. Obviously we cannot stack a team like that any more, but those last fifteen minutes of huff and puff should gave seen at least two scores by simply drawing them in- as we repeatedly did, and then putting it through the hands- as we repeatedly did not. I think Charkie played OK at times, but how he was playing was irrelevant in those last twenty when our team was nos 1-9,  with Bassett et al forced to join mauls in a desperate attempt to see what the ball looked like.

[WonkyWasp]

Paolo was screaming for the ball but very rarely saw it.  Well no  -  he saw it.  But no-one threw it to him.

[Shugs]

The answer is they are all capable of getting in other prem teams. But as a unit they’ve been poor. A few things stand out for me. Our speed of ball is pedestrian - teams just line us up. Distribution from 12 and 13 is even worse. We don’t use a lot of variation if Umaga is not on the pitch. And we’ve messed about at 15 all season which is such a pivotal attacking role. The lack of confidence sees us throwing shoulder high passes time after time. Certainly needs a freshen up. Gopperth, Watson, Fekitoa, Miller and Anderson are all off. I think we need to see some academy talent getting games on the wing next year, sign a good 15 and focus on more speed of ball through 9,10,12.

[Mellie]

I said after Lyon I hoped Wasps' coaches would have ALL players doing intensive opposed passing practice last week. Doesn't look like they did.

Our inability to pass accurately and quickly to create momentum in the backs is terrible. At one point against Sale we lost 20 metres due to dreadful passing.

That is why we cannot create attacking space or finishing off moves. That is exacerbated by the forwards not having great ruck speed and incessantly trying to batter down the door from 5m out using 1 out runners.

I'm not sure what Ed Robinson does as skills coach because I can't see a great degree of skill on the pitch.

[Westy68]

Just watch Quins v Gloucester, hell our 10,12,13 and 15 are not at all close to Quins, also I have to say our coaching set up.

At half time quins work out the problem and sort it out

[mike909]

Just watch Quins v Gloucester, hell our 10,12,13 and 15 are not at all close to Quins, also I have to say our coaching set up.

At half time quins work out the problem and sort it out

Nowhere near Glaws backs either - having had a more than decent season and coached by Wasps old boys....

[Rossm]

It takes two to tango. It is significant that both sides wanted to play positive, attacking rugby this afternoon. Sale must be the most negative side in the Prem. But you know what you get from them. We still let them tie us up in an arm wrestle which we were never going to win.