Leicester v Wasps: Post Match Thoughts

[Wombles]

Forwards hold your heads up, Backs hang them.

Do not deserve to be in the Champions Cup.

Question marks strongly over our coaching team.

First things first, well done Tigers. They spent large quantities of the game with neither field position or possession, yet their defence held up wonderfully, and despite a breakaway try from us from Porter they had us comfortably under control. A true measure of them though was when their chances came, they took them, they will be very hard to beat this season.

We though, where do you begin. I guess lets start with the positives. Our forwards throughout this season have grown as a unit, the line out, scrum looks far more solid, and definitely it is something to build on. With a pre season under their belts the likes of Launchers, Willis brother, Alfie, West and co really can hit the ground running. What is shameful though is the backs. At the start of the season we were missing many players at times, but at least they looked coherent, could go through phases and defend as a unit. This however over the last few rounds has completely crumbled, the defence in the wider channels were particularly absent, the play fractured, and today was a clear example where they can no longer go through more than one phase without falling apart. They all run different lines, get in each others way, make schoolboy errors with dropped passes, missed tackles and missed passes. Atkinson is too anonymous, Umaga (although not there today), Robbo, Umaga too inconsistent. Gopps -although a legend- too slow. There are problems across the entire division. A lot of players need to prove an awful lot next year.
But to blame them as a whole would be unfair. All of what I have mentioned above also falls squarely on the coaches. When an entire backs division is THAT bad, the likelihood is the coaches who have coached them have let them down. I do not think we have a specific backs coach, but our skills coach and Lee will need to take a large amount of blame. It is their failures that has led to us not getting into the champions cup, and that does have large ramifications on our attractiveness as a club and also our ability to get that which we really need, exposure and revenue. I will be honest here and admit I am furious at how bad things have gone in the backs, but that fury has not clouded my judgement, as despite today being a great example of how bad our backs have become, it is a opinion formed on watching every game this season.

We need a backs coach desperately, the lack of cohesion of the backs, picking players out of position, having centres that made little impact no matter the parings, the complete lack of ability to play multi phase with ball in hand, the lack of skill, the poor decision making, it all needs fixing, and what we know now is that Lee and the current coaches cannot do it on their own, this season is proof of such. We made huge positive steps with our forwards and all that has been lost with the collapse of the backs....this is for the coaches to own.

Next season now is huge for us! We have to get into the top 4, we have to get into the Champions cup. Is Lee the man to take us forward, I am not sure at present. I certainly do not want to throw the baby out with the bathwater because the forwards have improved. But we will need to see tangible results next year. The forwards deserve better from the backs, and the backs clearly deserve better from the coaches. If we see what we have seen in the second half of this season at the start of the next, then coaching changes will need to be made rapidly, Lee and the coaches have now been in place long enough to start moving this team forward, because since the final against Exeter we have moved tangibly backwards, and next season it is going to hurt us, not only because we will be watching from the outside of the biggest European tournament, but because we are financially worse off due to it.

Chris

Once a Wasp ALWAYS a Wasp!

[mike909]

Interesting post Chris, everyone knows I wasn't a back, as an old prop - my views on back play is mainly from observation as to what works. And we've not this season had the fit players or form players to do the basics. And for me, those basics in a Wasps team is making sure there is a cutting edge - we've generally had that in the back three - and decently solid in the centres so we don't bleed to many tries and facilitate that cutting edge getting ball. We all love our fast wide men, we've topped try scoring with them. But nothing is happening now.

I think we wanted Mills at 12 as a key part but that's not happened and our back three has lacked edge. One solid winger, no form from anyone else and we're having kittens at 15.

Unless that changes - coaching will only have minimal effect

[Rossm]

Wombles, please don't take this as criticism. Everybody posts that by missing qualification for the Champions Cup, we are affected financially. I've asked this question before and have never had an answer. It  is simply - HOW MUCH? Even an approximation would keep me quiet.

[Shugs]

Opinion is split on here I know. But I don’t buy the coaching thing. We’re dropping balls, throwing hospital passes, kicking out on the full. These are absolute basics. It’s palpably a confidence thing. Gopperth playing so many games at 12 tells its own story. A year ago he looked off the pace and this season was one too many. We’ve had a carousel of players at 13. That, to me is the biggest issue in the backs. For me, Crossdale will be fine at 15. Odogwu has X factor but I’d like us to add raw pace out wide. Bassett is a very good player. I’m happy with Robson/Hougaard/Porter at 9. At 10 we have three good players but not great and that’s not going to change. If Mills can stay fit we’re OK at 12. Which I think leaves us looking for a quality outside centre and a blistering winger. Forwards - looking extremely good to me. Personally I’m hoping Cardall gets more game time.

[Neils]

Opinion is split on here I know. But I don’t buy the coaching thing. We’re dropping balls, throwing hospital passes, kicking out on the full. These are absolute basics. It’s palpably a confidence thing. Gopperth playing so many games at 12 tells its own story. A year ago he looked off the pace and this season was one too many. We’ve had a carousel of players at 13. That, to me is the biggest issue in the backs. For me, Crossdale will be fine at 15. Odogwu has X factor but I’d like us to add raw pace out wide. Bassett is a very good player. I’m happy with Robson/Hougaard/Porter at 9. At 10 we have three good players but not great and that’s not going to change. If Mills can stay fit we’re OK at 12. Which I think leaves us looking for a quality outside centre and a blistering winger. Forwards - looking extremely good to me. Personally I’m hoping Cardall gets more game time.

Kind of agree with most of that. I think Spink is 13 with more game time. Crossdale just needs games. Odendaals late arrival (probably) is a bugger though. We really need him for preseason.

[Mellie]

You can only coach what is available to you. I do agree that the back play is predictable and lacking a cutting edge. Poor passing, i.e. passing to where some is standing as opposed to in front of someone running on to the ball at speed, stops all momentum. Dummy runners need to look like they might receive the ball and sometimes do so to keep the opposition guessing.

What appears missing most in the backs though is rugby intelligence. Dobbie has it but his distribution is slow and erratic, which has an immediate hampering effect. Will Porter has a bit of zip about him. A bit more game time should help his ability to control the play more.

Charlie was much more assured today. His try saving tackle was brilliant and his conversion sublime. He has good vision and attitude but lacks a bit of nous sometimes and needs to learn when to offload.

Gopps was very poor in both attack and defence. He's been a fantastic player for us but no longer has it.

Spink has potential but needs game time to develop. Fekitoa is a shadow of his All Black self.

Bassett seems to have lost speed. He was caught on a couple of breaks. Not passing to Spink, unmarked on his inside, and changing direction only to fall over his own feet sums up our poor decision making.

Odogwu has the physicality and speed to make a big difference. He just needs to concentrate better and try not to do everything himself.

Crossdale is rapid. He's also prone to mistakes. He made a good break then gave a terrible pass to Odogwu. That was a certain try if he had executed better. His dropped ball under no pressure was amateur. Rob Miller is a good journeyman player. Capable of playing very well but not consistently.

[Wombles]

I feel the nucleus of a good backs team is there. Odogwu, Porter, Spink, Crossdale, Atkinson have huge potential. Umaga, Robbo if they can be more consistent are some of the best players in the league when they hit their straps. We do miss a physical ball carrier, and have to hope Odendaal is fit and firing to fill that role.

It is the lack of cohesion that worries me, the skill aspects mentions (passing, kicking, catching) is not just on the players shoulders but also our skills coach. But when we cannot get past one phase ball in hand, and when you look at the running lines, movement on set plays, ability to support line breaks, defensive unity, transitioning from attack to defence and visa versa not one of them are on the same page, and that IS a coaching problem. We do not have a dedicated backs coach and it shows. This off season we need to find one!

[Chunky24]

Couple of interesting stats about tries scored compared to last year, we have scored more per game than last year, would be interesting to see the change in forward / back tries split.

https://twitter.com/RugbyInsideLine/status/1533132989240164353?t=kwQZw9UeKk7OR91DIJjTVA&s=19

https://twitter.com/RugbyInsideLine/status/1533132991228170240?t=Iv4eShVxikl1jHcWanPsyQ&s=19

[Shugs]

We do have a backs coach. It’s Everard. Well he’s the attack coach - if that doesn’t include the backs we’ve got even bigger issues! In terms of the season it would be great if someone who’s more tech savvy than me could put up a team from Oct/Nov/Dec. There will be names even as Wasps fans we’d forgotten about. We’ve finished ninth which is fair for how we’ve played but it’s undeniable we’ve had issues. By the same yardstick with a fair wind injury wise next year we have to do a lot better.

[Covkid40]

I’ve said this is previous post, I’m worried about next year. Forward will be on par or better than the rest of the league if we don’t get a massive injury list. I’ve been watching wasps since 2016 and this is the worst back division I’ve seen. The major concern is I don’t see it being any different next year, only one significant signing who may come to us in Oct/Nov after a full season in SA and the same coaching staff so what’s going to improve. Still the same questions at 12&13 question marks over 10 & 15, hopefully with game time Atkinson and Crossdale and solve these. How long before the superstars in the forwards get frustrated with playing in a mediocre team and not even challenging for silverware

[Wombles]

I’ve said this is previous post, I’m worried about next year. Forward will be on par or better than the rest of the league if we don’t get a massive injury list. I’ve been watching wasps since 2016 and this is the worst back division I’ve seen. The major concern is I don’t see it being any different next year, only one significant signing who may come to us in Oct/Nov after a full season in SA and the same coaching staff so what’s going to improve. Still the same questions at 12&13 question marks over 10 & 15, hopefully with game time Atkinson and Crossdale and solve these. How long before the superstars in the forwards get frustrated with playing in a mediocre team and not even challenging for silverware

Covkid, I have been a Waspy since our amateur days (although cannot remember all of it as i was a nipper in the 80s) and I agree with you, this is the worst I have seen a back division in a Wasps shirt. I also share your worries as well. We have some absolute quality in the forwards, and the coaches and backs are letting them down. If we do not do better next season than we will lose them. Lee, the coaches and the backs need to step up as they have let the forwards down.

[Shugs]

Well it will be a different backs division. Watson, Gopperth, Fekitoa and Le Bourgeois are off. So we’re going to be completely overhauled in the centres. We have a new 10 plus probably a couple of backs incoming. I trust the coaches to a) recognise the problem and b) fix it.

[HDAWG]

Opinion is split on here I know. But I don’t buy the coaching thing. We’re dropping balls, throwing hospital passes, kicking out on the full. These are absolute basics. It’s palpably a confidence thing.

Crossdale will be fine at 15. Odogwu has X factor but I’d like us to add raw pace out wide. Bassett is a very good player.

I’m happy with Robson/Hougaard/Porter at 9. At 10 we have three good players but not great and that’s not going to change.

If Mills can stay fit we’re OK at 12. Which I think leaves us looking for a quality outside centre and a blistering winger.

Forwards - looking extremely good to me. Personally I’m hoping Cardall gets more game time.

I think it is a confidence thing because the coaches can't instill the confidence. I mean that's why Blackett got the job at the beginning. When we're getting the basics wrong you kind of have to blame the coaches.

I agree with your comments on the backs, especially the players we need. Except: Hougaard has played too few games at scrum half to argue he plays there in future. And Mills shouldn't be included as essential if he can't stay fit week in week out.

And Cardall absolutely deserves game time. I expect he'll get game time as Stooke will be still injured(?) And because he's looked at by our competitors... McDonald will be an alternative too I'm interested in.

Definitely excited by the forwards but not the backs, and backs I absolutely blame coaching + players. The only back I'm excited for next season is Hartley. It's weird being a Wasps fan and not being interested in the backs...

[backdoc]

What is the role of Robinson?

[HDAWG]

What is the role of Robinson?

Skills coach?