More players for Eddie to Break

[hopwood]

He's picking fringe players and such because he's not able to pick top 4 team players yet.

Somehow his selections are already controversial, in other news the sky is blue.

+1

It’s pretty simple maths if you take away all the fan emotion and outrage.
England need roughly two sets of 18 players to train against each other in preparation for the Barbarians game.
No players from the top 4 teams can be selected at this point.
Jones picks English players from remaining teams in the Premiership to fill his training squad.

Simples.

[Raggs]

Quite a bizarre selection as what's he hoping to achieve?  ...
So why so many uncapped players or players with little experience?

Eddie can't pick anyone from Tigers, Sarries, Quins or Saints since they are preparing for playoff semi-finals. Given that proviso, it's a pretty good selection. Gives him a chance to cast his eye over fringe players and see how they perform with the regulars who are available. A bolter or 2 would be a positive outcome.

Jonny Hill is back in the mix, which may explain Launcher's absence. Don't think he will make Aussie trip as he hasn't shown particularly good form lately. If Stooke had been fit he may have ousted Ewells.

I'm 100% aware of the limitations of the selection. Do we really see Paolo or Charlie as likely RWC squad players, Dan even, really? I'm with the others on Dan and that selection is for me representative of the whole.

Who do you pick in place of them?

Eddie has Youngs, Randall, Mitchell and Quirke. Robson too technically. Robson has a lot of England experience, even if he doesn't have many caps. Does Eddie achieve anything by adding a scrum half with no idea of Englands play/patterns for a single Baabaas game?

Robson isn't there for Robson, he's there for the rest of the team, for the few players that may actually kick on and take a RWC spot, or a shirt in the future from that.

Depending on how Paolo does in the coming season, I can absolutely see him breaking into a rwc training squad. He has a near unique selling point. Whilst Charlie may not be ready for the RWC, Eddie doesn't need him to be. However, Charlie is a bloody good player, with resolute defence and not afraid to run a bit, who's shown time and time again to be solid under the high ball. He may not have the flare of a Smith, or the game sense of a Ford, but he's a very solid player who may be able to fill a Farrell role in the future. And again, who would you take in his place that's got a clearly better chance of being the the rwc squad?

[mike909]

Ok - there is the practicality of who's available. Fine. But as an example, if you've decided that Dan isn't your cup of tea - and it's hard to argue otherwise, what's he doing there apart from holding tackle bags? Charlie isn't in anyone's frame for the RWC. Paolo I might well be v wrong about - but hasn't shown much since being injured and would need to in reality be in the 6Ns next season and play to have a chance - well for me.

The squad going to Aus will be v different. Just seems too much like pissing about for getting a coherent 23 on the pitch for the BaaBaas and another game that will add little to his knowledge.

[Raggs]

Ok - there is the practicality of who's available. Fine. But as an example, if you've decided that Dan isn't your cup of tea - and it's hard to argue otherwise, what's he doing there apart from holding tackle bags? Charlie isn't in anyone's frame for the RWC. Paolo I might well be v wrong about - but hasn't shown much since being injured and would need to in reality be in the 6Ns next season and play to have a chance - well for me.

The squad going to Aus will be v different. Just seems too much like pissing about for getting a coherent 23 on the pitch for the BaaBaas and another game that will add little to his knowledge.

Who are you picking then.

It's easy to say who you don't think should be there, who do you think should be replacing them. Which scrum half do you see ousting Youngs, Mitchell, Randall and Quirke?

[mike909]

Ok - I'll withdraw - my main issue is with pissing about at the end of an endless season with knackered players. Dan and others aren't  going to the RWC, why not select some U-20's players if we're looking at the  future?

[Raggs]

Ok - I'll withdraw - my main issue is with pissing about at the end of an endless season with knackered players. Dan and others aren't  going to the RWC, why not select some U-20's players if we're looking at the  future?

For the benefit of those that will/might be going to the rwc. It's another 2 weeks training together. Why throw it away entirely when I reckon almost half that squad will be going to the RWC training group for sure (others may be). And next week, after the semi finals, it'll be an even more England focused group.

[hopwood]

Ok - I'll withdraw - my main issue is with pissing about at the end of an endless season with knackered players. Dan and others aren't  going to the RWC, why not select some U-20's players if we're looking at the  future?

It may seem like pissing around to you. But probably not to the players involved.

If nothing more, at the elite level, you get some invaluable insights and beliefs around how other players train, prepare, adapt and present themselves.
You make new friends.
You get a wider perspective on rugby life.
I imagine you also get paid for your time.

And, no matter what you say, I imagine the players and their invested families still get a great source of pride and excitement being called up for England training, whether Eddie is a coach you believe in or not.

For me…there are only benefits.
And if a player doesn’t want it, they can simply decline.

[Laterontoday]

How far in advance would the players have known they were being picked.  Dan along with several other players were spotted in a bar in Budapest yesterday so either he had no idea  he was going to be named in the squad or he's only got a short domestic pass out.

[Shugs]

It’s pure farce isn’t it. He can’t pick from four of the teams that will supply loads of players. So let’s have a training camp for those who won’t be involved (probably) going forward. What on earth is the point.

[JonnyD]

This is the same every year isn’t it. I know the Barbarians is a great institution but this end of year one has always been a bit of a waste of time.

[Mellie]

It’s pure farce isn’t it. He can’t pick from four of the teams that will supply loads of players. So let’s have a training camp for those who won’t be involved (probably) going forward. What on earth is the point.

Option 1. Dont bother doing anything as it's a waste of time.

Option 2. Pick those that are available so they can train and work on fitness, moves, skills or whatever. Available players means  cast iron certainties, players with a bit of experience or a lot of potential.

The worst outcome from Option 2 is it's a waste of time (the same as Option 1). The best outcome is it throws up a bolter or 2. The most likely is that allows those that will be in the team a chance to train with enough players to make it worthwhile and the players who will not be picked gain experience and insight for the future.

[Raggs]

It’s pure farce isn’t it. He can’t pick from four of the teams that will supply loads of players. So let’s have a training camp for those who won’t be involved (probably) going forward. What on earth is the point.

Option 1. Dont bother doing anything as it's a waste of time.

Option 2. Pick those that are available so they can train and work on fitness, moves, skills or whatever. Available players means  cast iron certainties, players with a bit of experience or a lot of potential.

The worst outcome from Option 2 is it's a waste of time (the same as Option 1). The best outcome is it throws up a bolter or 2. The most likely is that allows those that will be in the team a chance to train with enough players to make it worthwhile and the players who will not be picked gain experience and insight for the future.

And it always brings in millions of revenue to help keep the grass roots game going.

[Shugs]

I’m very fervently in the option 1 camp. Don’t bother. Don’t bother with the meaningless training camp. Don’t bother with the Barbarians game. Don’t bother adding further workload onto already over used players. Don’t bother messing about with the heads of people that you’ve already discarded. Robson is the classic example. Messed about by Jones ad infinitum. He knows he’s not on the plane to Aus. He knows he’s not in the 6N squad and he knows he won’t be in the RWC squad. So what does this end of season debacle add for him or England?

[Chunky24]

How far in advance would the players have known they were being picked.  Dan along with several other players were spotted in a bar in Budapest yesterday so either he had no idea  he was going to be named in the squad or he's only got a short domestic pass out.

According to this article Dan, Charlie and Paolo have had to return back from Hungary early.

https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/rugby/wasps-stars-abort-trip-abroad-24157987

[Shugs]

Ok - I'll withdraw - my main issue is with pissing about at the end of an endless season with knackered players. Dan and others aren't  going to the RWC, why not select some U-20's players if we're looking at the  future?

Completely agree Mike. It’s basically an excuse for thousands of people to get hammered at Twickenham. Meaningless and annoying.