Always a Wasp

Author Topic: BB Breaking - Announcements  (Read 13728 times)

InBetweenWasp

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Re: BB Breaking - Announcements
« Reply #150 on: October 20, 2022, 09:46:45 AM »
Look maybe this is a bit whacky but with Wasps and Cov Rugby playing in the Championship would it make sense to merge? Does that give a better chance of competing with Ealing Trailfinders?

OK OK yes I’m probably still feeling the effects of the anaesthetics!

Still not worn off yet?

It feels a bit distasteful to be suggesting mergers with other clubs as a survival tactic for us.  Although I do wonder how things could, or might play out if we were liquidated with no chance of survival and if CRFC had aspirations to become a Premiership Club.

Bloke in North Dorset

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Re: BB Breaking - Announcements
« Reply #151 on: October 20, 2022, 09:47:07 AM »
Look maybe this is a bit whacky but with Wasps and Cov Rugby playing in the Championship would it make sense to merge? Does that give a better chance of competing with Ealing Trailfinders?

OK OK yes I’m probably still feeling the effects of the anaesthetics!
Stephen Vaughn rules out mergers because of lack of time.

wasps

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Re: BB Breaking - Announcements
« Reply #152 on: October 20, 2022, 09:56:29 AM »



Given that we have no players, coaches, staff, stadium or anything, what value does a merger offer to Coventry rugby club?

Neils

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Re: BB Breaking - Announcements
« Reply #153 on: October 20, 2022, 10:10:52 AM »



Given that we have no players, coaches, staff, stadium or anything, what value does a merger offer to Coventry rugby club?

Probably well into negative!
Let me tell you something cucumber

Rugbyintheblood

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Re: BB Breaking - Announcements
« Reply #154 on: October 20, 2022, 10:20:31 AM »
Look maybe this is a bit whacky but with Wasps and Cov Rugby playing in the Championship would it make sense to merge? Does that give a better chance of competing with Ealing Trailfinders?

OK OK yes I’m probably still feeling the effects of the anaesthetics!

Still not worn off yet?

It feels a bit distasteful to be suggesting mergers with other clubs as a survival tactic for us.  Although I do wonder how things could, or might play out if we were liquidated with no chance of survival and if CRFC had aspirations to become a Premiership Club.

No this genuinely wasn’t meant to be just a one eyed plan.

As I mentioned, I recently watched Cov play Ealing Trailfinders and really was very sad to see that it was a complete mismatch - Men v Boys, even though the Cov lads were giving it 100%.

Well I’ve watched and supported Cov all my life, so I am well aware of the pride the fans have for the memory of a once great club but that’s also tempered by the reality now that IMHO Cov won’t get promotion to the Premiership on current form.

Having watched Prem rugby at the Ricoh/CBSA since Wasps move up, it’s the level I want to watch in Coventry. (Although not necessarily there in the future if the stadium is sold and unaffordable).

I’m sure no Wasps or Coventry fan will think this is a good idea but as a Cov Kid, I’m just trying to be realistic here.

Is it time for both clubs to bury the hatchet and stop living in the past? Take it as an opportunity?

Would ‘Coventry Wasps’ have a better chance of getting promotion to the Premiership?

I’ve always been a dreamer!

Rugbyintheblood

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Re: BB Breaking - Announcements
« Reply #155 on: October 20, 2022, 10:37:15 AM »



Given that we have no players, coaches, staff, stadium or anything, what value does a merger offer to Coventry rugby club?

Yes I take your point, probably beyond that now.

So probably more likely that Cov could offer some of our players employment if it strengthens their squad? That would be good if any of them want to stay local.

Sliminator

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Re: BB Breaking - Announcements
« Reply #156 on: October 20, 2022, 11:02:59 AM »
Look maybe this is a bit whacky but with Wasps and Cov Rugby playing in the Championship would it make sense to merge? Does that give a better chance of competing with Ealing Trailfinders?

OK OK yes I’m probably still feeling the effects of the anaesthetics!

Still not worn off yet?

It feels a bit distasteful to be suggesting mergers with other clubs as a survival tactic for us.  Although I do wonder how things could, or might play out if we were liquidated with no chance of survival and if CRFC had aspirations to become a Premiership Club.

No this genuinely wasn’t meant to be just a one eyed plan.

As I mentioned, I recently watched Cov play Ealing Trailfinders and really was very sad to see that it was a complete mismatch - Men v Boys, even though the Cov lads were giving it 100%.

Well I’ve watched and supported Cov all my life, so I am well aware of the pride the fans have for the memory of a once great club but that’s also tempered by the reality now that IMHO Cov won’t get promotion to the Premiership on current form.

Having watched Prem rugby at the Ricoh/CBSA since Wasps move up, it’s the level I want to watch in Coventry. (Although not necessarily there in the future if the stadium is sold and unaffordable).

I’m sure no Wasps or Coventry fan will think this is a good idea but as a Cov Kid, I’m just trying to be realistic here.

Is it time for both clubs to bury the hatchet and stop living in the past? Take it as an opportunity?

Would ‘Coventry Wasps’ have a better chance of getting promotion to the Premiership?

I’ve always been a dreamer!

I don't see it happening, but as a Wasps fan living in Coventry, who's been to a few Cov RFC games I'd support it.

InBetweenWasp

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Re: BB Breaking - Announcements
« Reply #157 on: October 20, 2022, 11:22:12 AM »



Given that we have no players, coaches, staff, stadium or anything, what value does a merger offer to Coventry rugby club?

Yes I take your point, probably beyond that now.

So probably more likely that Cov could offer some of our players employment if it strengthens their squad? That would be good if any of them want to stay local.

There's a lot that would need to fall into place for this.

I guess it depends on the appetite for promotion from CRFC hierarchy as well as where funding would come from to do so.  If Wasps were liquidated with no hope of return, then it's plausible that with some funds players could sign for CRFC to bolster their squad and push for promotion.1

BPA seems like it's in a decent location (from what i've read online) and closer to the town centre etc... whether it could be developed to 10,001+ and be financially viable without any other non-matchday revenues gets us back to square one, especially with a lack of P-Share.

BlackAndGoldSunglasses

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Re: BB Breaking - Announcements
« Reply #158 on: October 20, 2022, 11:30:01 AM »
BPA seems like it's in a decent location (from what i've read online) and closer to the town centre etc... whether it could be developed to 10,001+ and be financially viable without any other non-matchday revenues gets us back to square one, especially with a lack of P-Share.

Yes, decent location near the City centre, near the station, good bus links.

Plenty of space to develop the remaining three sides of the ground (and I have half a feeling they may have planning permission to do the North end already) to bring the capacity up. The space is good.

Financial viability? No idea

Shugs

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Re: BB Breaking - Announcements
« Reply #159 on: October 20, 2022, 12:38:36 PM »
But if you are suggesting an influx of Wasps players into the crfc squad that equates to a huge fixed cost increase versus a static income. Then you have to deal with identity - no-one is ever happy in a merger. The BPA doesn’t meet promotion criteria so there is no route to increased revenue for any investor and maybe most problematic of all I just can’t see crfc wanting it.

Peej

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Re: BB Breaking - Announcements
« Reply #160 on: October 20, 2022, 12:39:55 PM »
Would anyone want to go into business with - and let's be brutally honest here - a damaged brand? Cov may want to pick up as many players as they can, but why would they dilute their own brand or identity? What could we bring to the table that an owner couldn't just do direct by investing in Coventry?

Rugbyintheblood

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Re: BB Breaking - Announcements
« Reply #161 on: October 20, 2022, 12:58:42 PM »
Would anyone want to go into business with - and let's be brutally honest here - a damaged brand? Cov may want to pick up as many players as they can, but why would they dilute their own brand or identity? What could we bring to the table that an owner couldn't just do direct by investing in Coventry?

Fair comment. Anyhow, let’s hope we can still see some of our guys playing for Cov.

Steve from Cov

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Re: BB Breaking - Announcements
« Reply #162 on: October 20, 2022, 02:20:12 PM »
As a local supporter of both clubs I don’t see a merger as a realistic option or likelihood.

Despite Wasps loaning Cov the likes of Jack Willis and Tom Howe there have been tensions in their relationship.

Coventry RFC have their own financial pressures - and a small playing budget- but the club has its own rich history that their Directors and supporters will not want to dilute.


NellyWellyWaspy

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Re: BB Breaking - Announcements
« Reply #163 on: October 20, 2022, 02:22:16 PM »
As a local supporter of both clubs I don’t see a merger as a realistic option or likelihood.

Despite Wasps loaning Cov the likes of Jack Willis and Tom Howe there have been tensions in their relationship.

Coventry RFC have their own financial pressures - and a small playing budget- but the club has its own rich history that their Directors and supporters will not want to dilute.

+1

baldpaul101

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Re: BB Breaking - Announcements
« Reply #164 on: October 20, 2022, 04:12:45 PM »
Very interesting legal view on Wuss' plight form the excellent "Rugby & the Law" website, althougha few weeks old

http://rugbyandthelaw.com/2022/10/09/will-worcester-warriors-avoid-relegation-premiership-rugby-rfu-no-fault-insolvency/

A lot in the about the covid clause that would also apply to Wasps I think

"If Worcester were able to prove that the Club entering administration and suffering a winding up order would not have occurred but for the COVID-19 pandemic, it would be deemed that the Club has suffered no-fault Insolvency Events, such that the RFU may reverse its decision on relegation or impose a reduced sanction.

The test for a no-fault Insolvency Event is a simple one. It seemingly does not require that events beyond the club’s control are the sole cause of the Insolvency Event(s), it merely requires the RFU to ask: “had the event(s) beyond the club’s control not happened, would the Insolvency Event(s) have occurred?”. If the answer to that question is “no”, then the no-fault test is satisfied.

Therefore, if Worcester could show that, without the COVID-19 pandemic, the Club would not have entered administration or had a winding up order made against it, the no-fault test would be met.

The Club may have had financial concerns previously,[3] and many questions are (rightly) being asked of the owners’ conduct.[4] However, it is clear that the COVID-19 pandemic had a significant impact on Worcester’s business (as it did for all professional rugby clubs). For example, the company accounts for WRFC Trading Limited suggest that, as a result of the pandemic, the Club’s operating profit of £12.9 million in the 2019 financial year became a £4 million loss in 2020.

Further, it is notable that the appointment of administrators was triggered by the Department for Culture, Media and Sport, in respect of the loan given to the Club as part of the government’s Sports Winter Survival Package, during the pandemic.[5] As a wholly owned subsidiary of WRFC Trading Limited, it would seem inevitable that these COVID-induced financial difficulties affected WRFC Players Limited, too.

It is likely that Worcester would need to provide expert (accountancy) evidence in order to satisfy the RFU of the causal effects of the pandemic, however, on the basis of publicly available information, it would certainly seem open to the Club to argue that “but for” COVID-19, these Insolvency Events would not have occurred.

However, that is only half the battle. The Club would also need to persuade the RFU to exercise its discretion under Regulation 5.5.9 to reduce or waive the sanction imposed (i.e., relegation).

In this regard, the principle of proportionality (which must be respected by sports governing bodies in the imposition of sanctions)[6] will likely be key. The Club would likely emphasise the serious effects that relegation would have, particularly in the context of the Club’s attempts to seek new investment and its already precarious financial position. In such circumstances, relegation may be ruinous. The effects not only on the club itself but also on the local community, professional and academy players will also need to be considered.

It is particularly notable that there was not due to be relegation from the Premiership at the end of this season, as part of the RFU’s COVID-19 recovery plan.[7] Thus, if the RFU accepts that COVID-19 was a “but for” cause of Worcester’s Insolvency Events, it would be wholly inappropriate (and disproportionate) for the Club to be relegated."