Paolo Odogwu set for first England call-up

[Raggs]

If Cips had been in the international side as a solid fixture from some time ago, then it could have all been very different, but with all the experience, and ability that Ford has, I'd not pick Cips ahead of him now (or for the past few seasons I feel). The drink driving thing, when he'd actually made Lancaster's squad, is the main thing that makes me think he's got a self destructive streak. Marler has admitted he did stupid things in the hope of picking up a ban and missing internationals, because he was so stressed doing them/going away etc. Wouldn't surprise me if Cips had a similar thing going on.

28 players I guess is to have a secure covid bubble, whilst also not taking too many players from the prem. Might have been better to have 30, but have an agreement on max number from any team? Still, if he cannot call up other players (or requires a week or 2 to do so), then 3 scrum halves would make sense, even if Eddie hasn't liked doing it before.

Youngs' almost annoyingly, was actually quite good at the end of the autumn nations cup. Odd that it grates when he has decent games, especially when he failed to have one in the world cup final (christ that was dire, moreso than usual).

I wonder if Randalls size, gumption (he's not afraid to get stuck in, much like Porter seems to show) is what attracted Eddie in some ways. Eddie has a thing with size, being "too small" himself, but at scrum half, it's far less an issue, and a player who's been told he's too small all the time, might just be something that tickles his fancy.

[Montague Withnail]

Eddie is spoilt for good 9s, and yet he always picks Youngs, who isn't one.

He is one but was totally wasted on Leicester and England. If he'd played for Wasps and Wales he'd be a legend of the game by now.

I wholeheartedly disagree. Dobby, Spencer, Heinz, Randall..they all improve their team when they play, Youngs adds to Tigers malaise.

If you go back to U20s when Youngs was an instinctive 9 playing his own game, England haven't had another 9 come through the system since it was started who has come anywhere close to being able to do what he could do. Since then he's been turned into a box-kicking machine in rugby systems that seek to eliminate any possibility of player-initiative or individual skills. Dobbie wouldn't last 5 mins at Leicester and there is a reason why Jones has always been so reluctant to pick him in spite of his being clearly the most impactful scrum half in the premiership for at least of the past 6 seasons.

[Nigel Med]

Youngs' almost annoyingly, was actually quite good at the end of the autumn nations cup. Odd that it grates when he has decent games, especially when he failed to have one in the world cup final (christ that was dire, moreso than usual).

Youngs was good in the Autumn because he plays the game that EJ wants to see extremely well. If you're going to kick the leather off the ball for 80 minutes, Youngs is your man. The fact that he's slow to get the ball away at the breakdown and has no pace is utterly irrelevant. You come badly unstuck when your forward dominance doesn't materialise and you have no plan B, the World Cup final being the classic example when Faf De Klerk handed him a lesson in how to play at 9. Plan B SHOULD be to play heads-up rugby, attack with pace and variety, exactly what Dobby is superb at and Youngs is so dreadful. The problem for England is that the dull kicking game is so ingrained that few in the squad are on Dobby's wavelength because he doesn't get enough game time. Sooner or later England will lose an international, Dobby will get his usual 5 minutes and as he is on the pitch at the final whistle EJ will blame him and use that to justify continuing to pick Youngs.

IMHO it's a real shame that Youngs excellent international career is going to come to an end with so many disliking him because he should have been dropped two seasons ago. Not his fault.   

[Montague Withnail]

Youngs' almost annoyingly, was actually quite good at the end of the autumn nations cup. Odd that it grates when he has decent games, especially when he failed to have one in the world cup final (christ that was dire, moreso than usual).

Youngs was good in the Autumn because he plays the game that EJ wants to see extremely well. If you're going to kick the leather off the ball for 80 minutes, Youngs is your man. The fact that he's slow to get the ball away at the breakdown and has no pace is utterly irrelevant. You come badly unstuck when your forward dominance doesn't materialise and you have no plan B, the World Cup final being the classic example when Faf De Klerk handed him a lesson in how to play at 9. Plan B SHOULD be to play heads-up rugby, attack with pace and variety, exactly what Dobby is superb at and Youngs is so dreadful. The problem for England is that the dull kicking game is so ingrained that few in the squad are on Dobby's wavelength because he doesn't get enough game time. Sooner or later England will lose an international, Dobby will get his usual 5 minutes and as he is on the pitch at the final whistle EJ will blame him and use that to justify continuing to pick Youngs.

IMHO it's a real shame that Youngs excellent international career is going to come to an end with so many disliking him because he should have been dropped two seasons ago. Not his fault.

The thing is, that actually isn't his natural game, he was this dazzling snipping runner, electric speed - almost as quick as Simpson but with a more rounded game. Found this video of him from back in the U20s, but it's not his best try from then by any means. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wlbz6JjibUo. Then I remembered that cracking game at Adam's Park (which we won 37-30!) when he scored a brilliant solo try (it's here at around 1:30 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0lfoiX0wfA - fantastic game that). Unfortunately what he's become is what 15 years at Leicester will do to you.

[baldpaul101]

Odogwu & Randall both in the squad.
Dobby & Launch also in. Jack not selected

[Raggs]

Odogwu & Randall both in the squad.
Dobby & Launch also in. Jack not selected

Jack, Umaga and Atkinson all in the shadow squad, so seem to be undergoing the same testing procedures, but I guess not actually with the squad (or perhaps turn up at camp, but train separately?).

[Chunky24]

Chunky...
That seems logical, but would it also not be logical to increase your squad size if that was the case?
As I understand it, other nations have named 30+ player squads. It seems weird that we would be naming seemingly redundant players in such a small squad.


I don't know how big the training bubbles are, but if we have a 28 man squad and lose a bubble to quarantine, do we still have enough squad players to put a match day 23 out?
Especially if you consider the natural injuries that happen in a training camp / tournament

The shadow squad basically does what we were talking about here doesn't it giving a 40 player pool but only 28 in camp at a time, shadow squad tested the same so available at short notice.

[mike909]

Squad picked does what I expected in that it's quite conservative a selection, with Dan, Max M and Lawrence my expected backs to improve the mix - Paolo was a surprise

Forwards - solid well practiced players in the main.

Outcome - looking towards an "England way" 6N's challenge - little out of the ordinary or unexpected.

Does little to provide real cover for the key areas of concern if injury strikes - like at 10 and 12. F&F have started so many recent England games it's like the RWC selection already. Injury would be a big problem. I don't like the choices unless Max M gets a run. Especially looking at how well Wasps play ball in hand with our first and second choices at 10/12 and 15. England seem set up to be less capable ball in hand than we are! (But I am biased)

[Shugs]

The key question is can the shadow squad still play for us? I find the call ups for Odogwu and Atkinson beyond baffling. Huge congratulations to them and both great talents but baffling none the less. Underhill has been in terrible form this year. How Willis isn't the first name on the team sheet is just beyond me.

[WonkyWasp]

Hopefully Fazlet won't knock Charlie out this time.

[wasps]

Chunky...
That seems logical, but would it also not be logical to increase your squad size if that was the case?
As I understand it, other nations have named 30+ player squads. It seems weird that we would be naming seemingly redundant players in such a small squad.


I don't know how big the training bubbles are, but if we have a 28 man squad and lose a bubble to quarantine, do we still have enough squad players to put a match day 23 out?
Especially if you consider the natural injuries that happen in a training camp / tournament

The shadow squad basically does what we were talking about here doesn't it giving a 40 player pool but only 28 in camp at a time, shadow squad tested the same so available at short notice.

Indeed.
The shadow squad seems to be the missing piece that we didn't know about before.



My hope now is just England win a grand slam, our young guys get a taste ofthe success and improve from being involved in an international environment.
While it's short term pain for wasps, let's look forward optimistically to the benefits it can bring us in the coming years

[Neils]

Feel a little sorry for Paolo as not only will he likely have bum burn watching the England matches but will lose his Wasps place to the returning Malakai at centre plus Zach returning on the Wing. After two months away he is likely to be back on the bench or worse. Probably also have to be de-programmed from Eddie ways.

[13thWarrior]

Glaws Atkinson or our Atkinson?

[Montague Withnail]

Glaws Atkinson or our Atkinson?

Ours - Charlie. Can hear the Exeter and Quins fans choking on their cream teas from here in North Yorkshire.

[Shugs]

Even as a Wasps fan I have to say it's a strange pick. Simmonds and Smith must be wondering what's going on. That said jump forward three years and I do think Umaga and Atkinson will dominate the 10 shirt.