England team vs Australia

[Andywasp50]

I saw that first Hill 'face strike' and was surprised he wasn't pulled up and carded for it to be honest. He did little else other than try and mix it up and donkey around for the rest of the game.

I think the RFU will find their chickens coming home to roost in the next few months for sticking with a busted flush in EJ. He's been head coach for what - six years now, so there's nothing new in the tactics or set up, no evolution in any aspect. The players he took for this tour took England back to a core group from 2-3 years ago, so they have no excuses. Since Borthwick left the set up Jones has scratched around with various iterations looking for a game plan.

Our back three were poor today. We have no attacking gameplay and do very little in the red zone.

Itoje's line out screaming was cringeworthy and made me ashamed of England rugby.

Apart from the first 20 mins (when we created nothing much), we had little control and precision and struggled to build phases.

Farrell still looks like he considers himself captain elect to me - he was deciding whether to kick the pens, consulted little with Lawes and gave the talk to the huddle at the end of the game. If he's not able to back off and respect Lawes, then I wonder how toxic his influence is. I thought some of his decisions to kick points were overly conservative.

Having wasted the last three years wandering drunkenly up a cul-de-sac, there's little chance of sobering up and finding the way back loaded with a definitve purpose in time for the next WC, so EJ will just revert to type and pick the same side with the same tactics as last time round. I can't see that fooling too many opponents.

[hopwood]

You know what...I'm actually going to check my own bias.
For the past week, I've been looking through my 'optimistic' bias lenses and only searching for the positives.

However, reading everyone's comments, the newspaper reports, the punditry, etc....I'm obviously living on a different planet.
I feel a bit deluded. 
I'm obviously seeing something different.

Henceforth, I'm going to sit back for the summer and watch from a distance.
Not because I'm offended by any comments, but purely because I can't work out what the f**ks going on.

I need my off-season, too.

[wasps]

English rugby is a strange beast.
Essentially, we have money and numbers on our side compared with most other nations.


Over the years, we see dynamic, powerful, attractive rugby from the likes of New Zealand, Australia, even Wales.
Yet, England's best years are often forwards based arm wrestles. Even back in the early 2000s, we were often referred to as playing 10 man rugby, even with the likes of Robinson, Greenwood, Catt etc involved.


In more recent years, South Africa, and at times Ireland have beaten us at that game too.




Our rugby history is based on a forwards dominated game, so it's not necessarily wrong for England to continue down that path.
As Wasps fans though, we often want more, a lot more, especially from the backs.
Seeing Farrell in a backline feels very anti-wasps, Farrell as Captain is even worse.


I do often wonder if I spend too much time hoping for something from England that will never happen regardless of who is in charge

[Heathen]

I'd like to see Jack selected for next weekend's game. He has more tp offer that what we saw yesterday from England's back row.

[mike909]

Anyone who'd like another view point - this is the Rugby Analyst from YT - had a press pass at the BaaBaas game too!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhsSPvjejxQ

Interesting POV - I'm prob much on the same page

[Bloke in North Dorset]

Anyone who'd like another view point - this is the Rugby Analyst from YT - had a press pass at the BaaBaas game too!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhsSPvjejxQ

Interesting POV - I'm prob much on the same page

Thanks for the link.

Interesting point that we don't know if England's system works because we haven't got the backs to exploit it. Which raises the question, why build a system if you haven't got the talent to exploit it? I supposes that screams Arundel for the next game.

I think Greenwood was right when he said its Farrell or Smith but not both. Preferably Smith, although who goes to 12 is the real question.

[Shugs]

It’s a curiosity in the game at the moment. If you take Esterhuizen out where are the quality 12’s.

[Shugs]

You know what...I'm actually going to check my own bias.
For the past week, I've been looking through my 'optimistic' bias lenses and only searching for the positives.

However, reading everyone's comments, the newspaper reports, the punditry, etc....I'm obviously living on a different planet.
I feel a bit deluded. 
I'm obviously seeing something different.

Henceforth, I'm going to sit back for the summer and watch from a distance.
Not because I'm offended by any comments, but purely because I can't work out what the f**ks going on.

I need my off-season, too.

Your opinion is your opinion Hopwood. Differing views maketh the forum! Hope you are not away too long.

[wasps]

It’s a curiosity in the game at the moment. If you take Esterhuizen out where are the quality 12’s.

It's often said that England haven't had a quality 12 since Greenwood.


It's why multiple coaches have tried to pin their hopes on Tuilagi, and when that inevitably fails we get Farrell.




I do think that behind England's pack, if we had the likes of Care, Smith, Slade (13), and back 3 like May, Watson and even Arundel (i.e. pace), then I could play 12 and we should still win games

[mike909]

Interesting point that we don't know if England's system works because we haven't got the backs to exploit it. Which raises the question, why build a system if you haven't got the talent to exploit it? I supposes that screams Arundel for the next game.

I think Greenwood was right when he said its Farrell or Smith but not both. Preferably Smith, although who goes to 12 is the real question.

Yeah - I though that too. Thing is - when Watson and May were injured - we picked all 6Ns and into this game - back three's lacking in raw pace. We were winning games with lightweight centres in OF and JJ. Perhaps Ford was handy too? What seems to be a problem now is that perhaps OF is beyond his best, no one of JJ's pace and vision is around and the wingers aren't quick. We have the opportunities to pick fast men - but seem to think people like Thorley, Radwan and others aren't good enough? Perhaps Freeman is an option?

But the basic point remains - as you note - why play a system we're unable to exploit?

[Bloke in North Dorset]

Citing for Hill?

Edite With link:

https://twitter.com/liquorbox_/status/1543182464486481921?s=20&t=Rb1nswkWzSJ9nfQhSBrFLg

Don't think so, not red card threshold

good call.

https://twitter.com/willgkelleher/status/1543601328509026304?s=21&t=xqkqRrlZuXA2ponpxQFUuA

[Rossm]

Tom Curry has been ruled out of the rest of England's tour of Australia because of concussion. Flying home.

[Heathen]

Tom Curry has been ruled out of the rest of England's tour of Australia because of concussion. Flying home.

Cue Jack?

[Shugs]

Has to be likely I think. Although Eddie may call a lock up to play there.

[JonnyD]

Tom Curry has been ruled out of the rest of England's tour of Australia because of concussion. Flying home.

Cue Jack?

Probably not.
Can see us reverting completely to a ‘power’ game now.
Ludlum at 7, Lawes at 6 and Isiekwe and Chessum covering 4/5/6.

I think if we’d been quicker at the breakdown and had started, Ludlum/Willis and Curry and Lawes at 5 we might have pipped them. Can’t see us playing like that now and we’ll just go for a lot of pick and gos and rolling mauls