England team vs Australia

[Bloke in North Dorset]

defense did not let England down, attack did.

+1

As said up thread, lots of quick ball but it mostly led to lots pretty running lines behind the gain line. I’m a Smith fan, but he did run in to contact a lot more than he would have done for Quins and we really don’t want our chief playmaker spending so much time under the big boys. He/England became predicable and the Aussies did very well at shutting him down.   

[Westy68]

I know Lawes prefers to play in the back row but for me he looks a better player in the 2nd row.

I don’t like a 12 playing as 1st receiver, that’s surely the 10’s job. I’m not saying Farrell shouldn’t  play 12 but not 1st receiver. Marcus looks lost and unable to play his game.

Jack nowell is not international standard, our backs were really poor today.

Arundel - if someone keeps doing something special then he must be special. Doing something special all the time when you play week in week out means you are world class. It is very difficult to be world class (for obvious reasons) harry comes on against tired players he has just come onto the scene. It is completely different doing it when you play week in week out, this is why Irish want to wait and slowly build him up. Arundel maybe so good that he can still do special things every week but that’s a big risk as it could easily knock his confidence and stop his progress if he starts to find out he can’t do it every week. Big decision to make, because at this moment in time he does look very good

[hopwood]

In terms of Arundell his late tries change nothing for me. We’ve still no idea if he’s good enough or not. Australia had the game won when he came on. I’m not saying he isn’t a talent. But the game is chock full of players who make an eye catching contribution when the games done but struggle if put in. That said I’ve no idea what Jones was doing picking Nowell and Cockanasinga so he may as well have a shot on the wing. I don’t think there is any sort of team waiting to blossom unfortunately. Jones selection is all over the place. He’s been exposed as having zero strategy in terms of team development and he changes his coaching team every Tuesday. The results speak for themselves.

Let’s just check our bias here.
If a young Wade had come on and done exactly the same thing, how would we all be, as fans, responding right now?
Let’s enjoy the glimmers of hope!


Furthermore, as Shaun Edwards has always said, defence wins matches.
We created a couple of leaky holes in the second half.
We can tighten up there.
And we can be more ruthless in the opposition 22.

I’m still withholding judgment until the 2nd and 3rd game.
But….if you can’t get excited about Henry Arundell….we’ll, you’re just a sourpuss because he plays for Irish and not Wasps.
PS…if Wasps were still in North London, he would most probably be playing for us.

[Shugs]

Problem is Hopwood it’s no good waiting for the second or third test. We’ve been useless for two years or more. We can’t feed off “glimmers”. If you asked me to name the team Jones will want to pick in the RWC I’d have no idea. The problem is nor does he. On Arundell in particular I don’t think I have any bias. I freely admit he’s a talent no matter who he plays for. It will be exciting to hopefully see him develop and lord knows England need some raw pace. I’m just stating that with the amount of “first class” rugby he’s played we’ve absolutely no idea if he’s good enough. What’s his defence like? How is he under the high ball? Can he have impact against non tiring legs? Not saying the answer to any of these is no. Just that we don’t yet know.

[westwaleswasp]

Eddie apparently said that Danny Care is sharper than he has been since 2018.
It is just prestidigitation.  Drivel designed to obfuscate the fact that the Ben Youngs leather off the ball experiment has been sussed by every international team, and that only one team (SA) is anywhere near being able to win matches vs rivals with this plan. Trouble is, for great chunks of today we employd the same plan with different players. The latest iteration is to fit in as many "auxillary" forwards in as possible, but you can't get smething for nothing. We need a running game B, but the parts are not there becasue Eddie jettisoned them over the last 2-3 years.

[backdoc]

Having looked at all the video stuff, IMO Hill should be sent back to the UK economy class.

[mike909]

Talking elsewhere - it occurred to me that if the Wasps full strength pack was available, they'd have most likely put away that Aussie pack and allowed even just a competent backline to win the game.

England have always been able to win games - by having an ugly imposing (not hair pulling) pack, good set piece, and ability to make metres and tackle. And yet we seem to have fallen off even that basic requirement.

And perhaps this performance like the 6Ns one's suggest we really miss the class of May and Watson, (and Slade when at 13) and a fit Sinckler, and Launch for power.

But something is rotten in the state of Denmark, so to speak. And seems to have been, too often, since after squeezing a win vs France seconds in that Autumn Cup....

I just don't know what it is we're trying to do

In 2018, in SA, I didn't feel this low.....after losing the first two tests.....

[Shugs]

No real idea if there’s anything in it but I wonder how team morale is. Some of the most dominant personalities in the team George, Itoje, Farrell, Vunipola x 2 have spent the season shouting in other peoples faces, largely when they’ve failed. Can’t see that sitting well. Throw in two Bath players who have spent a season being mullered and add Hill who I’ve never seen have a good game and maybe you get what we got?

[backdoc]

Watching the Wales game, and look at what can happen when you have a proper predator in the backs. Speed of thought and frame from Rees-Zammit

[mike909]

Watching the Wales game, and look at what can happen when you have a proper predator in the backs. Speed of thought and frame from Rees-Zammit

That - and what looks like a team understanding their game plan and tactics. Regardless of the result - that's a quality half from Wales.

[Shugs]

Pace. Scares oppositions.

[Bloke in North Dorset]

Citing for Hill?

Edit: With link:

https://twitter.com/liquorbox_/status/1543182464486481921?s=20&t=Rb1nswkWzSJ9nfQhSBrFLg

[backdoc]

No real idea if there’s anything in it but I wonder how team morale is. Some of the most dominant personalities in the team George, Itoje, Farrell, Vunipola x 2 have spent the season shouting in other peoples faces, largely when they’ve failed. Can’t see that sitting well. Throw in two Bath players who have spent a season being mullered and add Hill who I’ve never seen have a good game and maybe you get what we got?

Yes, I think there is a realisation that their time has passed [Saracens players]. Jones has handled them very badly IMO. Let us see if they can get their heads right for the last two tests.

[Chunky24]

Citing for Hill?

Edite With link:

https://twitter.com/liquorbox_/status/1543182464486481921?s=20&t=Rb1nswkWzSJ9nfQhSBrFLg

Don't think so, not red card threshold

[Westy68]

No real idea if there’s anything in it but I wonder how team morale is. Some of the most dominant personalities in the team George, Itoje, Farrell, Vunipola x 2 have spent the season shouting in other peoples faces, largely when they’ve failed. Can’t see that sitting well. Throw in two Bath players who have spent a season being mullered and add Hill who I’ve never seen have a good game and maybe you get what we got?

Yes, I think there is a realisation that their time has passed [Saracens players]. Jones has handled them very badly IMO. Let us see if they can get their heads right for the last two tests.

Smith will never be able to play his own game with Farrell in the team trying to take centre stage