Match thread?

[mike909]

Basically nothing between the teams apart from some interesting reffing. Positives were Cardall and Matthews and the back row as a whole. Thought Bassett looked good too. Fekitoa did some decent things but never gets the ball in promising positions and missed one awful tackle. Negatives were our abject lack of penetration in attack. Quite telling that our try came from play from the outstanding Young and Carr. Other than that we just passed it side to side. Sopoaga was forced to run into traffic time after time as there was no other option. Not disastrous but losing is becoming a worrying habit. Caveat : Edinburgh were, by and large an international 23.

Agree - other than the caveat....I was enjoying the game to some extent - Matthews took responsibility, but again, we looked too much like we'd planned in the car park before the game and never lined up runners for Lima to use - he was looking frustrated, though I thought not a bad game for him. And yes - side to side - no one to pass to.

Even if we'd nicked a win, and even though the players did seem to want to take responsibility, seemed to be backing each other, the performance was as if the coaching was ignored, poor or irrelevant

We can put out a stronger pack, but given this selection was pretty good in its play - I'm not convinced it would be enough.

Having watched the Quins game, whilst they did lose to Ulster, they were playing to a plan and when it worked they are going to be a hard game to get 4 points from.

I really didn't want to feel deflated by this game, made the time to watch it and yet losing seems to be a habit, but based on not seeming to be prepared

[westwaleswasp]

" we don’t seem to be playing off 9 at all anymore"

The 9 was one of the better performances on thpitch today.

Noticed he sniped a lot, not sure that was in the plan as support seemed static.

[Hymenoptera]

VV/Raggs

Can i suggest we can have a Dai Out sticky, somewhere for the 'same old' group to go to lay out the same weekly monotonous moans and we can have a game thread that is actually related to the game.?

[westwaleswasp]

Caveat : Edinburgh were, by and large an international 23.

I'm stealing this post from an Edinburgh supporter on the other forum;

"15. Damien Hoyland (69) - He is a third choice wing tried at full back before. Never kicks so is easy to defend against.

14. Darcy Graham (25) - First choice, second game after injury
13. James Johnstone (44) - Current second choice to Bennett but served well last year.
12. George Taylor (13) - Third choice but first two are injured.
11. Jamie Farndale (6) - No idea why he is still around. Went to the 7s and came back. Fourth choice

10. Simon Hickey (26) - Usually second choice but very close to van der Walt
9. Nic Groom (5) CAPTAIN - Solid second choice

1. Rory Sutherland (78) - Third choice, coming back from injury
2. Michael Willemse (9) - Second choice but very good
3. WP Nel (134) - Clear first choice but coming back from injury

4. Sam Thomson (5) - Third choice, but second choice injured
5. Lewis Carmichael (38) - Second choice but dynamic young player on the up.

6. Jamie Ritchie (65) - First choice
7. Hamish Watson (102) - First choice
8. Viliame Mata (64) - First choice

As an Edinburgh supporter I am perplexed by this. Cockerill has made it clear that the league is a priority. Nonetheless he could have put out a stronger side while still resting a few players"


I didn't see the game so I am not commenting on the game.

They fail to mention the international tight five + Bennett that came on whilst we had Alo, West, Oghre, Vukasinovic, Morris and Wolstenholme.

But before they came on the backs were clueless, and after they came on they were equally clueless. Not sure the subs changed anything. If anything our scrum got better in the latter half of the game.

[Rossm]

But I hope the club is at present making an official complaint about that ref.  Never in a month of Sundays was that a penalty with 2mins to go..........  Additionally I also understand that the ref doesn't have a TMO but if everyone else can see YY being tackled around the neck I'm amazed the 3 officials couldn't see it either.

I'd say apart from at scrum time (which we have 5 2nd rows out injured) I thought the forwards did an amazing job of standing toe to toe.  The backs however seemed to feel rushed I don't know if it's they are unsure of what they are doing or they don't know what they are doing but they seem to be in two minds.

Anyway on to the next one, hopefully we get some 2nd rows back to bulk up the scrum.

I posted about the high tackle on YY at the time but it doesn't appear to be in the thread. Staggeringly inept by the officials. Thomas had to go off shortly after. Hope it was just precautionary. As for their penalty winner, I am lost for words. Thought it was a good turnover.

Also, I would like to point out that our defence didn't let them score a try.

[Heathen]

Confidence is everything. We need some Ws. Full stop.

[JonnyD]

Also, I would like to point out that our defence didn't let them score a try.

Not conceding a try at home but still losing is unforgivable in my eyes, just can’t see it as a positive as Edinburgh really didn’t pose much of a threat in attack

[BlackCountryWasp]

Confidence is everything. We need some Ws. Full stop.

This the crux of the matter. Last week after watching us struggle at Murrayfield, I felt something needed to change (not necessarily personnel but more what was being trained). Yesterday for me was about grabbing a win, any kind of win just to boost confidence before Quins. It wasn't pretty but we almost ground out the result, their last penalty was harsh. I thought we'd made a good turnover. Then to win the late scrum just outside their 22 I thought we'd play another phase or two with Lima or Gopps moving back for the Drop Goal. A confident team would have done that but we didn't.

Losing is a habit we definitely have at the moment and the phrase "must win" is now valid for upcoming games. The only way to build confidence is to drill it into the players all week and then as Heathen says, get wins. I'd take a 3-0 next Saturday.

[NellyWellyWaspy]

Too much cider to post yesterday.

Ref was very good. Made the pace flow quickly and pinged what many PRL refs would let slide in the ruck.
Defence was good.
Discipline was generally good. But we were hard pressed in the second half.
Lineouts much better
Scrum was strong up against a very heavy scrum.
Line speed was good
Tackling good.

BUT. Both sides lacked finishers.
Both sides lacked the ability to find space
Both sides had poor service from their 10s.
In our case, Lima might has well have sent them a note to say where he was next passing the ball. He received it, turned his shoulders to face where it was going and passed it there, regardless if there was a defender already up. I don't want to say this, but Umaga is way better than this display from Sopoaga.
After the ball got to Jimmy, we were going backwards and sidewards.
Our wings had no chance ball in hand. every time they got the ball, the defence had slid sideways with us leaving the wing marked by 3 men.
When we did break through (at least 3 times), there was no support. Off one of these we scored, off the others we did not.
The ruck often delivered the ball to Porter, for him to see no one ready to receive. Sopoaga often missing as receiver.

The big difference between the first and second half is we got desperate and panicky, thus losing the ball. The other difference was that Edinburgh realised we had no one capable of catching a kick chase ball. So they pumped ball after ball up and watched our wingers and Sopoaga struggle. Only Minozzi coped with these.

We really need some wingers who can catch and run with with these kicks, and we also need wingers who can chase and compete for our own kick chase balls. In fact, we really need 3 wingers in the squad who are actually wingers, and not sevens whizz bang runners. None of our wingers seem capable of these basic roles.

The issue then? We may have a large squad, getting smaller each week, but we do not have finishers or creative players. If we were at full strength, I would say our forwards are fine. But the backs need a serious culling. Given that some have just been signed (or re-signed), that will not happen to as many as it needs to.

I just don't see either Sopoaga or Fekitoa as worth any more than Le Bourgeois or Umaga.

Our MoTM? For me that was YY, by a long way. But he did not look fully match fit, even saying that.

[Brandnewtorugby]

I felt deflated after the game, it feels like the defence is good, the players were committed and there were not a ridiculous number of mistakes. I thought Fekitoa did well and I admire his commitment, he seems to relish running hard at defences. Every time we made a break, there were plenty of defenders further back, the Edinburgh defence was very organised and we couldn't disrupt them, nor them disrupt us very often.

I don't really understand enough about the game to know what tactics could be used to unlock well organised defences. I think it was Danny Care on 5 Live saying that defences are so good now that you have to take risks to score tries. It does seem that way and has done especially since the ruck law changes. I think we have suffered particularly with those law changes and are having to change as a team because of them. Faf de Klerk was also talking on 5 Live about how important the high ball was and how their detailed analysis of the different England players techniques was used to plan their tactics.

[Shugs]

Agreeing with most of how others saw it. It confirms what our issue is. It's in attack. We've been poor, average and very good in defence. Our set piece is decent. But we have so little craft going forward that in most games we are pretty blunt. Maybe it just seems a big drop off after seeing us shred teams for so long. It would be interesting to see how many try bonus point games we've had in the last 18 months. Our back towers are picking better lines than our backs. We have who we have so not sure what the answer is but for me our defence has taken a shallacking but it's going the other way that is the issue.

[Damian68]

We really need some wingers who can catch and run with with these kicks, and we also need wingers who can chase and compete for our own kick chase balls. In fact, we really need 3 wingers in the squad who are actually wingers, and not sevens whizz bang runners. None of our wingers seem capable of these basic roles.

I wonder if the Management are ruing the decision to send Sirker out on loan before the start of this season?

If there was any player that demonstrated all of the qualities we are now missing from our back three options (enterprise, finish, defence, and general 'X' factor) it would be him and sadly now confined to the rehab gym as a result of a ridiculous decision. I know hindsight is a wonderful thing but why take any risks with Sirker preseason when he was our most promising try scoring threat? It looked as though all our other wingers at the time needed the additional game time a spell on loan would have offered and that Sirker, being our sharpest back three player, was the least needy! My view certainly hasn't changed having seen the back three options played in both the Prem and European competition to date which to be quite honest can only be described as toothless!

I know Sirker has an international sevens background but he's certainly not the type of "whizz bang" player that Nelly bemoans!!

[RogerE]

We spent a lot of time towards the end when we were 7-9 down camped on their 22m line with no obvious chance of breaking through.

Why didn't anyone use that other option - the drop kick, or don't we have anyone capable of doing one. Even LBND managed one back in the day

[NellyWellyWaspy]

We really need some wingers who can catch and run with with these kicks, and we also need wingers who can chase and compete for our own kick chase balls. In fact, we really need 3 wingers in the squad who are actually wingers, and not sevens whizz bang runners. None of our wingers seem capable of these basic roles.

I wonder if the Management are ruing the decision to send Sirker out on loan before the start of this season?

If there was any player that demonstrated all of the qualities we are now missing from our back three options (enterprise, finish, defence, and general 'X' factor) it would be him and sadly now confined to the rehab gym as a result of a ridiculous decision. I know hindsight is a wonderful thing but why take any risks with Sirker preseason when he was our most promising try scoring threat? It looked as though all our other wingers at the time needed the additional game time a spell on loan would have offered and that Sirker, being our sharpest back three player, was the least needy! My view certainly hasn't changed having seen the back three options played in both the Prem and European competition to date which to be quite honest can only be described as toothless!

I know Sirker has an international sevens background but he's certainly not the type of "whizz bang" player that Nelly bemoans!!

I agree.

[Rossm]

Why didn't anyone use that other option - the drop kick, or don't we have anyone capable of doing one. Even LBND managed one back in the day

Wasn't that Shawsey? Melville was furious.