Wasps v Harlequins post match thoughts.

[Wombles]

Well the final whistle has just gone so what are your thoughts?

I for one are rather sanguine. I had a feeling throughout the week that we would lose. It is disappointing that we shipped so many points at home. But Quins brought intensity, speed of play and physicality and we could not match it this week. Will this be a dead cat bounce from Quins or the start of something more?....my suspicion is that the former is more likely, as when pressure of expectation elevates and as the season draws on, with international returnees for other clubs, their challenge will fade. But full credit to them, they did a complete job on us today.

For us, well injuries and international call ups had an impact, but we failed to play enough heads up rugby. We did not really change our game plan to manage Quins gain line press. Umaga did a couple of kicks through, but his inexperience also shone through as the game progressed. He is quality, but he is a work in progress (but one well worth continuing investing in). Porter played well, but struggled to adjust to the challenge, quick ball at the ruck was needed and too many times he delayed when more urgency was needed. Wolfstenholm brought this, but again made errors of judgement. Tapping and going v kicking for touch being a prime example.

The forwards need to take this as well, they were beaten and beaten well. This is a dent in their pride, but sometimes you have to use this as motivation.

Saints are next up, and we need to re-establish ourselves and our game plan starting Saturday. We take this loss, learn and move on.

[Shugs]

Yes, I had a feeling Quins might out "intensify" us. Porters speed at the base was poor but so was his passing and kicking. But that could be because Quins were in our face. We were, quite simply, outplayed in every single department. I did see positives. Miller looked solid. Wolstenholme looked good. Kibirige looked good and Fekitoa got some time.

[Wombles]

Sops is still an enigma for me as well. Does some things very well, but Healy said it best, he does not seem to have the ‘heart’ for the more physical and defensively committed parts of the game, and that is a concern.

[HDAWG]

It was Quins rush defence, Care and Smith outclassing Porter and Umaga (mainly due to experience as well as strategy), and it bring one of those games where nothing works for us but everything does for Quins. Our younger players will only get better, but they're going to have games like this in order to improve. We seriously missed Robson. We also didn't have a plan B.

[Wombles]

It was Quins rush defence, Care and Smith outclassing Porter and Umaga (mainly due to experience as well as strategy), and it bring one of those games where nothing works for us but everything does for Quins. Our younger players will only get better, but they're going to have games like this in order to improve. We seriously missed Robson. We also didn't have a plan B.

Agree with this. Sometimes losses like this prove invaluable to development. We are deadly on the front foot, however we need to learn how to change our game plan when the match is not going in our favour.

We were beaten by the better team on the day, there is no shame in that. We own it and look to improve.

[Steve from Cov]

We really missed Dan and the rest of the England internationals.

Lima should be delivering much more. To be honest he wasn’t good enough to be our first choice at 10 and now he is showing he is not vfm at 15.

Umaga missed Dan and he was a poor second best to Smith. Porters slow service didn’t allow to get on the front foot but I think he will recover and come back stronger.

I was surprised that Kieran Brookes didn’t start at loose head. For me JTA is a finisher and his scrummaging is not top drawer.

[DGP Wasp]

There is a close correlation between our dips in form and international weekends.
End of last season very good, no international games.
Start of this season flat during the autumn internationals.
Much improved once our England players returned.
The next few weeks will be interesting to see if my theory holds, but today did not bode well.
Specifically I think we are an infinitely better team with Robson at 9 and Launchbury's presence and leadership. We seem to miss those 2 more keenly than any 9f the others. With Fekitoa back, Odogwu may not have been selected anyway; Willis is a big loss, but his brother is no mean replacement and I was very happy with today's starting back row. West's late call up would have been disruptive, and compounded by McIntyre going off early, but we have good depth in the front row.
None of our back up 9s has come close to Robson. Vellacot was really promising but not the same since his injury, Porter disappointed today, and Wolstenholme certainly livened things up.
Launchbury is more than just a bloody good lock forward. His leadership is crucial and is conspicuous by its absence when he is unavailable.
I know its a bit simplistic to attribute everything to a couple of absentees, but these guys leave a massive hole that is very difficult to fill.

[Bloke in North Dorset]

Somebody mentioned it on the match thread, but Josh's absence was obvious, especially at the restarts.

I like Sops so my tendency is to feel sorry for him, he's made a move that could have been 2 years of stardom but he's found himself in a position where coaches are trying to shoehorn him in to the side. Rob Miller's performance just makes it even more obvious that he isn't a FB.

It looks like Jacob needs a good rest, mentally if not physically. His poor decision making under pressure was highlighted by Smith's generally excellent decision making. Obviously its easier when you're on the front foot and winning, but its games that start like that when you need you're 10 to be thinking clearly.

Again, as someone mentioned in the match thread, Jacob hasn't been right since he got back from the last England "apprentice" session. The first one seemed to galvanise him, maybe Eddie's mind games have screwed up Jacob? How about trying Sops back at 10 where he's obviously more comfortable, and Minozzi/Miller at 15 where both of them play well and are more suited?

Other than that, that's a game for the memory hole that gets ever larger with age.

[MarleyWasp]

It looks like Jacob needs a good rest, mentally if not physically. His poor decision making under pressure was highlighted by Smith's generally excellent decision making. Obviously its easier when you're on the front foot and winning, but its games that start like that when you need you're 10 to be thinking clearly.

Again, as someone mentioned in the match thread, Jacob hasn't been right since he got back from the last England "apprentice" session. The first one seemed to galvanise him, maybe Eddie's mind games have screwed up Jacob? How about trying Sops back at 10 where he's obviously more comfortable, and Minozzi/Miller at 15 where both of them play well and are more suited?

I get the feeling that Jacob is trying too hard to develop into an Eddie Jones style 10 which he will never be because his natural game doesn't suit that style, a bit like a certain 10 formerly of this parish. The other problem with Jacob is he gets frustrated too easily which leads to him making more mistakes such as missing penalty kicks to touch. The more he tries to mold himself into an Eddie 10, the less game time he'll end up getting with us, so personally I think he'd be better off putting his England ambitions on the back burner until we get a head coach who knows how to utilise him.

I am not sure switching Lima to 10 is the answer. For me he has never fitted our style as a 10.

[andermt]

As a team we were poor, Zack about the only highlight.
Everyone likes to blame Lima, sure he wasn’t great, but he was far from the worst Wasps player on the pitch, for me that was Jacob. He has been poor for a while and seems to fall to pieces when he comes up against Smith. Missing touch, interception passes, kicks too long, very little actually worked. I’d actually put Lima back at 10 next weekend and drop Jacob. England call up has really hurt his form.
He needs a reality check as today was poor. We really need a good backup at 10 if we assume Lima is leaving at the end of the season.
Really worried about the next few weeks as unless Lee gives them a full on bollocking and a kick up the arse I see a few weeks of losses.
Not sure what is happening with Vellacott but be need some experience at 9 when Robson is with England. Porter was slow compared with Wolstenholm, but he needs more time before being a starter.
Perhaps Wasps have become a bit complacent after a few good games with the youngsters but today showed they need more time before they can really be classed as premiership starters.

[Rossm]

As several posters stated above, Jacob looks like a player who is trying too hard and could do with a short break.

[wasps]

Sometimes it happens
Sometimes you feel 10ft tall, other times your 4 year old hits you on the nose and you need a lie down.

If you learn from it, then it's not a terrible thing to happen.

Perfection doesn't exist and while constantly trying to improve its important, trying to attain perfection will ultimately lead to disappointment.


Take the loss, learn where it went wrong, right some of those wrongs next time and keep believing.

[mike909]

As several posters stated above, Jacob looks like a player who is trying too hard and could do with a short break.

Difficult to disagree with that. And also with observations re England. Something for management to think about as it's unlikely that Jacob will be anything to do with RWC '23 given that F&F are  not droppable it seems.

Going forwards - perhaps Jimmy in to 10, a full time FB to 15 and if you are up against a more than decent front row - start your best prop at TH? I would never have started Jeff today. As an old prop - if I was as good as Marler - I'd have been v happy Brookes wasn't starting.

Jimmy to 10 might just have provided the mental space to put Quin on the back foot. We were ok for two scores down at HT, but it didn't need to be like that. We needed to have a little luck to be fair, and top doing the same thing, hoping for a different outcome.

We know we can match and more Saints next Saturday and we need to.

[Hymenoptera]

As several posters stated above, Jacob looks like a player who is trying too hard and could do with a short break.

I'm going to say what many people wont like, but here goes. Jacob just isn't as good as he's made out to be...not to say he won't be, but the fact he's the closest 10 to England is baffling.
His poor performances are nothing new, often hidden behind great results, but his basic ability to catch a ball, be it a pass or high ball isn't good enough. His reading of the game appears non existent, he doesn't mix his game at all and has zero control, and his error count, be it penalties not making touch or kick's too long and out of field, just kills any momentum we get close to.

Pair this with a poor performance from a 9 and you have what happened today. Robson controls much of our play, not Umaga, so when's it's his turn to step up, it doesn't happen.
He does something sublime 1 game in 5 and has more off days than on. Had Atkinson been on the pitch i'd have hooked him off given the chance. I'd say he has regressed since he broke through.

I also disagree with the constant digging out of Sops, he didn't lose us todays game but receives all the flack, down to blaming him for the state of the turf..He's been a failure, for sure, and missed a crucial tackle today, but how about Minozzi who missed the tackle in the first place by coming offline..
Some people are too afraid to lay blame where it's warranted and chuck mud at the easiest scapegoat.

Smite away peeps. - 20 secs, must be record  , wanted to modify post to sat this isnt a reactionary post as i have said similar before.

[andermt]

Agree, especially onLima, everyone likes to blame him, even when he has been okay people pick up on his little errors as if they are major problems whilst ignoring some real issues elsewhere