Wasps v Clermont: Post match thoughts.

[BrackenandMacken]

Or have just been regularly incompetent in very, very basic things.

Too many officials seem to be of the view that a good game is a quick game irrespective of whether the correct calls have been made.

Unfortunately until the officials own up and admit that the game is too quick and complex for them to officiate correctly these instances will keep on happening.

A challenge system for knock ons and forward passes in a possession set that ends in a score would be a start. Unfortunately i can't ever see it happening and the BT sport commentators will continue to be the main source of reviewed calls.

[hookender]

Or have just been regularly incompetent in very, very basic things.

Sorry talking about Wasps or refs ?

[Shugs]

That's not a bad idea. Similar to cricket maybe. Two reviews per side. If your appeal is correct you keep the review and if not you lose it. Perhaps bracket it with a serious clamping down on players directly appealing for reviews which I think is sometimes where we lose out due to being too "nice" (even though I applaud us for it). Make two reviews officially allowed but nothing else.

[Shugs]

Or have just been regularly incompetent in very, very basic things.

Sorry talking about Wasps or refs ?

Refs (in this instance!)

[Chunky24]

Shouldn't need to be a factor but this was probably an instance where the currently absent home advantage would have come in to play with a large section of supporters screaming forward behind the AR raising his attention to it if not instantly but for checking.

[wasps]

If there was a review system, would it be called by the coaches or the captain?

In cricket it's the players, albeit they have the chance to consider it after each ball.

In tennis is again the players but they have to call the review essentially immediately.

I believe that in NFL all reviews are called by the coaches - and again i think it essentially has to be immediately after the infraction.



In rugby, we already have an extended "advantage" concept, so stopping play or calling a review immediately after an incident is going to be awkward of advantage is being played.

There's not always an immediate break in play so it'll be difficult for a player to call the review too as they need to remain focused on what's going on.


So I assume it'd be a coach that has to call the review. Presumably another official somewhere that the coach can tap on the shoulder and formally request the review.

Does play then stop immediately? Or is it reviewed at the next natural break in play, which in theory could be a couple of minutes later?

As much as I think it solves certain problems, it will certainly create a heap of other problems.
Particularly at scrum and ruck times.
Imagine that a ref pings team A. Team B requests a review, and it is found that there were multiple infringements by both teams.
How then do you choose whether the penalty should be overturned, whether Team B lose their review or not

[Chunky24]

If there was a review system, would it be called by the coaches or the captain?

In cricket it's the players, albeit they have the chance to consider it after each ball.

In tennis is again the players but they have to call the review essentially immediately.

I believe that in NFL all reviews are called by the coaches - and again i think it essentially has to be immediately after the infraction.



In rugby, we already have an extended "advantage" concept, so stopping play or calling a review immediately after an incident is going to be awkward of advantage is being played.

There's not always an immediate break in play so it'll be difficult for a player to call the review too as they need to remain focused on what's going on.


So I assume it'd be a coach that has to call the review. Presumably another official somewhere that the coach can tap on the shoulder and formally request the review.

Does play then stop immediately? Or is it reviewed at the next natural break in play, which in theory could be a couple of minutes later?

As much as I think it solves certain problems, it will certainly create a heap of other problems.
Particularly at scrum and ruck times.
Imagine that a ref pings team A. Team B requests a review, and it is found that there were multiple infringements by both teams.
How then do you choose whether the penalty should be overturned, whether Team B lose their review or not

NRL have captains challenge

https://www.nrl.com/news/2020/03/02/captains-challenge-given-go-ahead-for-round-one/

[Shugs]

You could maybe limit it to certain situations. If a try's been scored? Don't know - it's just frustrating that even with the aid of cameras and technology obvious infringements are still missed and maybe through Wasps tinted specs but we seem to be on the end of a lot of them.

[Chunky24]

Also being trialled in NZ super rugby

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/rugby-introduces-captains-challenge-blacks-19822973

[hookender]

At the moment too much shouting / appealing from players. So I would be happy for a captains challenge to be brought in , but with the proviso of ref pinging any transgressors. I know it’s meant to be through captain already but would be good to reboot.

[westwaleswasp]

Or have just been regularly incompetent in very, very basic things.

Did we get a lot of luck last year and not notice? The big decisions this year- red cards missed, match winning stuff- just  beggar belief. This stuff is supposed to even out.

[Rossm]

Or have just been regularly incompetent in very, very basic things.

Did we get a lot of luck last year and not notice? The big decisions this year- red cards missed, match winning stuff- just  beggar belief. This stuff is supposed to even out.

Yes. But over how long?

[Neils]

Or have just been regularly incompetent in very, very basic things.

Did we get a lot of luck last year and not notice? The big decisions this year- red cards missed, match winning stuff- just  beggar belief. This stuff is supposed to even out.

Yes. But over how long?

Never

[wasps]

I always feel that you get the bad luck when you're losing and then it feels like normal lock when you're winning.... But it feels intensified when you lose.

[RogerE]

I watched the match again, without the emotion of watching it live, and, in retospect, we were much better than I thought.

Overall the team played better than I thought. Paolo is getting the plaudits, but I thought Booj was immense.

It was towards the end when we started putting on non-injury replacements that things went wrong, and this must be down to the coaching staff.

Was it really necessary to replace Tommy and Paolo?

Having said that there is no way we could compete with the quality of Clermont's bench.

If it wasn't for one debatable call by the officials (the try that Paolo held-up) and one blatantly bad decision (failure to check an obvious forward pass in front of both ref and linesman) we could well have won by 14 points.

If we can play with the same intensity we did for the rest of the season, there is no reason we can't get a top 6 place. However we, especially, need Cruse back or we need to get a confidence coach in for Oghre.