Jackal Penalties

[Brandnewtorugby]

Just watched Courtney Lawes win a jackal after having his hands on the floor, actually looked off balance. We have been pinged quite regularly for slight touches of the ground, Dog recently getting pinged for touching the ground has he scooped up the ball in particular sticks in my mind.

I don't agree with the interpretation of touching the floor with a hand automatically assumes you are off balance, I wonder if it has been changed?

[Raggs]

Just watched Courtney Lawes win a jackle after having his hands on the floor, actually looked off balance. We have been pinged quite regularly for slight touches of the ground, Dog recently getting pinged for touching the ground has he scooped up the ball in particular sticks in my mind.

I don't agree with the interpretation of touching the floor with a hand automatically assumes you are off balance, I wonder if it has been changed?

Biggest thing for me is Lawes is clearly also trying to wrench it up. Hands are on the floor because they're under the ball, which is also on the floor. It could have gone against him of course, but I think he's don't it well enough to be winning them, especially after the ref has set out his stall.

[Brandnewtorugby]

Yep, once on the ball he looked secure, but I thought I saw Lawes check himself with a hand on the floor before he went for the ball.

[Raggs]

Yep, once on the ball he looked secure, but I thought I saw Lawes check himself with a hand on the floor before he went for the ball.

Yep, think that was on one where he still then had time to basically get both hands on it before an Exeter player touched him. Refs are often more lax if you're trying to turnover a guy with no support. He'd also earned some credit from previous ones at that point.

[Wombles]

Jackle penalties have become hugely problematic since Jacks injury, we are not getting anywhere near enough for it to make any form of inroads into the game for us. However if we want to be competitive next week against Tigers we are going to have to correct this, if we are too passive in the ruck and simply spread the defence it will play straight into Tigers hands given how physical and abrasive they are. They will simply recycle and win the gain line time and time again.

This is going to need to be a balls out performance Saturday!

[asteriskszegol]

Pedantic point: "Jackal", spelt as in the opportunistic scavenging animal.

[Nigel Med]

Touching the floor shouldn't automatically mean a penalty, they are supposed to be looking for the "Jackaler" both being first to the breakdown and then supporting their own weight. If the team in possession get a man to the breakdown first and they remain on their feet (i.e. not diving straight off their feet to make a contest impossible or an "Exeter" as it's known) the "Jackaler" cannot use their hands as their presence means that a ruck is formed. It may look like that they are not supporting their own weight if they have a hand on the ground but obviously that's not necessarily the case, particularly with the likes of Jack Willis and others (Curry for one) who seem to be able to get in the most absurd positions whilst still supporting their own weight.

Given this all happens in a matter of seconds, referees can be forgiven for occasionally getting it wrong but if a try is scored immediately after you would hope that the TMO would check that the build up was entirely legal.

[Brandnewtorugby]

Pedantic point: "Jackal", spelt as in the opportunistic scavenging animal.

Thanks, corrected!

[hookender]

Pedantic point: "Jackal", spelt as in the opportunistic scavenging animal.

Thanks, corrected!

Oh I think the urban dictionary meaning brings on a whole new image to ‘Willis has a fantastic Jackle’ .

[DGP Wasp]

Oh I think the urban dictionary meaning brings on a whole new image to ‘Willis has a fantastic Jackle’ .

I'm not even going to risk Googling that!

[Rossm]

Pedantic point: "Jackal", spelt as in the opportunistic scavenging animal.

I was going to post the same. But you beat me to it.

[mike909]

The key problem with the whole of the breakdown is that whilst there is a reasonable way of officiating and playing that complies with the Laws and promotes faster and for me, safer play. The Prem is long way from that.

Whilst agreeing, in the main, with the above, the problem is too often caused before the potential jackaller even has a decision to make. Listening to a lot of SH and M10 rugby, you can hear the ref calling "tackle" "release" "roll" and "ruck". Those calls allow compliance (well for me) with the Laws to be easier and more consistent

What you see so often here is that the tackled player rolls and plays after being tackled, the tackler fails to release and get out of the way, and when a ruck if formed before a defender (jackal) gets hands on the ball (released by tackled player of course....or not) a competition is allowed, with the use of hands.

I'd recommend a read and look at the WR Laws, explanations and vids - as I've prob not explained v well. But a jackal really ought to be fairly rare given the Laws as written.....

[westwaleswasp]

I fully agree about the clarity of the calls in the SH.

I have postulated before that  the English refs are uniquely harsh on jackals, and that they are playing a balancing game between allowing the jackals to compete, and teams keeping ball in hand, because the more you allow the former the more likely teams are to kick.

[mike909]

I fully agree about the clarity of the calls in the SH.

I have postulated before that  the English refs are uniquely harsh on jackals, and that they are playing a balancing game between allowing the jackals to compete, and teams keeping ball in hand, because the more you allow the former the more likely teams are to kick.

It's why some commentators postulated that England were practicing kicking at the end of last 6Ns (they kicked over 40 times vs Italy....) and Autumn Cup. Why England don't look towards possession (they beat Australia in the RWC with 36%) and why the game plan (imo...) fails if you're not at 100%!

Watching M10 - a) the tackle is managed per the Laws release etc and b) only if clearly first to the tackle will defenders look to basically pick the ball up. And pull out as soon as ruck is called.

[westwaleswasp]

I think they were right over England kicking.
For my money, sooner or later you kick the ball away and the other team don't kick it back and play tennis, and they run it past you eventually. Kicking it away can lead to disproportionate time defending.
It is exactly as you say, if you are just off your game in any way, with that plan you are toast. Other game plans are less forgiving on a bad day.