How bad is our 10 situation

[Westy68]

I know we can’t change this season but we can’t denial it’s a big problem for us.

I really do think Charlie has the potential to be a very good 10 but not for another 2/3 years.

I appreciate we have the young lad from Newcastle coming next season but again it’s not going to solve the problem next season, great in 2/3 seasons.

Yesterday really highlighted the 10 problem, Charlie hardly touched the ball as everything was coming of 9, which I personally believe is effecting him.

It looks to me the coaching set up don’t trust Charlie to play 1st receiver and is then constantly par passed.

We have the potential to be a decent team but not if we don’t have a 10.

I’ve read that we may have up to 3 players coming in for next season, one has got to be an experienced 10 so the young 10’s don’t have so much pressure they can’t clearly deal with and the coaches don’t seem to trust

[Chunky24]

I think playing behind a more powerful pack will allow the 10s not to think they have to create chances out back from every type of ball whatever the quality and be a bit more pragmatic and balanced knowing they can rely  on the forwards more.

[Mellie]

Yesterday really highlighted the 10 problem, Charlie hardly touched the ball as everything was coming of 9, which I personally believe is effecting him.

He doesn't have a chance if the delivery from 9 is so slow. Yesterday Dobby was so ponderous he reminded me of Ben Youngs.

To play off 10 effectively you need quick ruck speed and immediate, accurate delivery. That's how Quins play. We're nowhere near that.

[Westy68]

Yesterday really highlighted the 10 problem, Charlie hardly touched the ball as everything was coming of 9, which I personally believe is effecting him.

He doesn't have a chance if the delivery from 9 is so slow. Yesterday Dobby was so ponderous he reminded me of Ben Youngs.

To play off 10 effectively you need quick ruck speed and immediate, accurate delivery. That's how Quins play. We're nowhere near that.

Sorry I didn’t make myself clear, because we don’t have confidence in our 10 I believe it’s effecting Dan, as it seems we can’t have Charlie as 1st receiver, therefore slowing Dan down and having him change is normal game

[HDAWG]

My biggest concern with 10 is either we need an experienced attacking 10 or a young 10 who has a good mentor, and honestly I don't think we have either.

Robson having off days really doesn't help either. Likely due to motivation problems, but it could well be just poor attack strategies as well.

Might be an overall problem with attack rather than the individuals. I'm honestly not sure. Because Robson was class last season and the season before last, best in the league.

[HDAWG]

I think playing behind a more powerful pack will allow the 10s not to think they have to create chances out back from every type of ball whatever the quality and be a bit more pragmatic and balanced knowing they can rely  on the forwards more.

I mean according to reports from yesterday, our forwards were pretty fantastic. And I don't see this as a weakness for us.

[Chunky24]

I think playing behind a more powerful pack will allow the 10s not to think they have to create chances out back from every type of ball whatever the quality and be a bit more pragmatic and balanced knowing they can rely  on the forwards more.

I mean according to reports from yesterday, our forwards were pretty fantastic. And I don't see this as a weakness for us.

I'm not saying it's a weakness but actually a platform the game plan can be built on for next season which wasn't necessarily the case last season and earlier this season until the reliability of our set piece became more evident and the power of the forwards around the pitch developed. Whoever is at 10 doesn't have to think they need to create magic tries of whatever ball they get, hence the pragmatism and balance.

[westwaleswasp]

Let us see what happens with the new chap. Look at the way Biyi has become such a great player in 18 months or how Stooke fitted in seamlessly.
I ageee it is a worry.

[Wombles]

I’m not concerned with our 10s, I am concerned as to how they are utilised. For me so much of your play goes through the 9-10 axis, and it is full utilisation of both positions that has such a huge impact on the team as a whole. We are playing far too much of 9 and our 10s are not dictating play anywhere as much as they should be, and as such that extra layer of responsibility on our 9s are inhibiting their play because they are simply being asked to take on too much. It should be automatic that whoever plays 10 will be leading and shaping our play in harmony with the 9, it should not be optional or even considered to be a choice. You want to play 10, you need to demand the ball, expect to be leading the plays and demanding attention. The less influence your 10 has the less influence the team has. The fact Atkinson seems so anonymous is -in my honest opinion- a coaching error, and one that needs correcting.

[HDAWG]

I think playing behind a more powerful pack will allow the 10s not to think they have to create chances out back from every type of ball whatever the quality and be a bit more pragmatic and balanced knowing they can rely  on the forwards more.

I mean according to reports from yesterday, our forwards were pretty fantastic. And I don't see this as a weakness for us.

I'm not saying it's a weakness but actually a platform the game plan can be built on for next season which wasn't necessarily the case last season and earlier this season until the reliability of our set piece became more evident and the power of the forwards around the pitch developed. Whoever is at 10 doesn't have to think they need to create magic tries of whatever ball they get, hence the pragmatism and balance.

+1, agreed

[Shugs]

I think Atkinson, Haydon-Wood backed up by Umaga is fine. Atkinson wasn’t in the game much yesterday but for me that was because we had an obvious power advantage so it made sense to keep it tight in the front 8. Go back to the Worcester game and he was taking it to the line and picking killer passes. What one of that trio needs to show is that they can plug the Gopperth shaped kicking gap.

[Vespula Vulgaris]

I think Atkinson, Haydon-Wood backed up by Umaga is fine. Atkinson wasn’t in the game much yesterday but for me that was because we had an obvious power advantage so it made sense to keep it tight in the front 8. Go back to the Worcester game and he was taking it to the line and picking killer passes. What one of that trio needs to show is that they can plug the Gopperth shaped kicking gap.

I remember hearing an interview with Matt Dawson years ago and he was very much of the opinion that a lot of the 9s success was down to his relationship with the 10. He said the communication he was getting when he went in to a ruck to bring the ball out set him up to get the ball to the right place without having to make all the decisions himself. Even when the play was off him it was at least partly coming from the 10. Obviously he could do his own thing if he saw it was on, but if his 10 saw a gap and told him to play a miss pass to the right he wouldn't have to look and assess it himself.

I don't think we have that communication. Which is why Dan is looking slow and indecisive, and why Charlie is often simply missed out of the equation.

So is it that they don't trust each other, or that our 10s don't have the vision?

[Shugs]

Who knows. Maybe Atkinson doesn’t feel confident enough to “instruct” Robson. He strikes me as a quiet sort of chap and is junior in age and stature. You could argue any 10 needs that ability to dictate. I think it will come. One thing is for sure, the signing of Haydon-Wood says to me we’re not getting anyone else. I don’t really see the argument that’s been put forward elsewhere that Dan’s form is a result of Atkinson - he was fine last week.

[JonnyD]

There was a good interview with Spink a while ago where he said that he felt like he couldn’t speak up when he first came into the set up, similar to when you’re a young kid at school playing with the older ones. It took him a year or so to be able to know what he could say and when he could speak and how he could impose himself on proceedings,
Must be the same for Charlie, except he was straight into the first team out of school - a huge step up for him. He is playing incredibly well for his age - give him time

[Beasties]

Who knows. Maybe Atkinson doesn’t feel confident enough to “instruct” Robson. He strikes me as a quiet sort of chap and is junior in age and stature. You could argue any 10 needs that ability to dictate. I think it will come. One thing is for sure, the signing of Haydon-Wood says to me we’re not getting anyone else. I don’t really see the argument that’s been put forward elsewhere that Dan’s form is a result of Atkinson - he was fine last week.

Yup.